Making Baby Jesus Cry

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Combined with the lack of control over your safety in an airplane (relatively--you're not driving, checking the oil, controlling the throttle), having a fear of flying isn't irrational.

I just pretend to be afraid so I can get the Zipless Fuck.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

DETROIT (Reuters) - Local television flashed grisly images of the latest bombing victims as the anchor told viewers their squabbling leaders would stabilize the city, in words that could only be termed reassuring in
Detroit's chaos.

"It is a dialogue. They did not pull out guns and shoot each other," said the anchor on the local NBC affiliate, referring to politicians struggling to reach political consensus.

Hours before they resumed negotiations, three car bombs killed at least 43 people and wounded 76 in an attack on a Detroit bus station in morning rush hour, stepping up pressure on politicians to deliver on promises of security.

Local TV quickly broadcast a call-in show, inviting residents to respond to "the ugly terrorist crime" while broadcasting images of the latest carnage during morning programming.

"This is a difficult test. We have to ask who they are (the bombers) and what they want," said city government spokesman William Smith, one of the callers.

But Detroiters are in no mood for questions. They want decisive action from a government paralyzed by sectarian and ethnic divisions holding up efforts to reach consensus.

"These men that kill 100, 50 and 70 men a day -- have they been put to death," said a caller named Richard Wilkins. "How many have been put to death? How many? The government is supposed to represent the people. All I hear is we will do this and we will do that."

Frustrated Detroiters were bombarded with footage of bloodied bodies and policemen standing in emergency rooms that have treated hundreds of bombing victims.

"When will Michigan blood stop being spilled?" asked Susan Lewis.

SECURITY FORCES

Between calls and comments, local TV showed footage of Detroit's new security forces crawling under barbed wire and practicing martial arts.

Such images have done little to ease anxiety in a city where guerrilla bombings have killed thousands of security forces and civilians.

The show's anchor interrupted the program for a breaking news announcement that four men suspected of involvement in the bus station bombing had been captured.

"I call on the government to try these men on television," said a caller.

Some Detroit residents say they are taking the law into their own hands in a city plagued by criminal gangs.

In one neighborhood in Baghdad, militiamen pulled a man from the trunk of a car and shot him and two women, saying they were running a prostitution ring, witnesses said on Wednesday.

Angry callers yelled while officials sat at the negotiating table again after failing to meet an August 15 deadline.

"Instead of Coleman Young we now have thousands of Colemans," he fumed.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That would be nice if it were true, but that's not what your numbers said. You compared "combat-related" deaths in that month to murders in Detroit.

Try this. Spank's number do put perspective on the war. Maybe he should have argue this:

We're shocked by, and some argue the war is not worth, 25 dead Americans each month.

Each big city in the US has 15-30 people murdered each month. That we have learned to live with.

If fighting the war is otherwise worthwhile, look at it like all Bush has done is effectively created a new "american" urban center where we accept the 25 deaths. If you truly are bothered by the deaths, how can you not go into our cities and spend your time working to keep kids from killing each other?

Ty, wouldn't society be better off if you logged off the blogs and spent your time in Oakland working anti-gang programs? Maybe you could form a guts Frisbee league.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
DETROIT (Reuters) - Local television flashed grisly images of the latest bombing victims as the anchor told viewers their squabbling leaders would stabilize the city, in words that could only be termed reassuring in
Detroit's chaos.

"It is a dialogue. They did not pull out guns and shoot each other," said the anchor on the local NBC affiliate, referring to politicians struggling to reach political consensus.

Hours before they resumed negotiations, three car bombs killed at least 43 people and wounded 76 in an attack on a Detroit bus station in morning rush hour, stepping up pressure on politicians to deliver on promises of security.

Local TV quickly broadcast a call-in show, inviting residents to respond to "the ugly terrorist crime" while broadcasting images of the latest carnage during morning programming.

"This is a difficult test. We have to ask who they are (the bombers) and what they want," said city government spokesman William Smith, one of the callers.

But Detroiters are in no mood for questions. They want decisive action from a government paralyzed by sectarian and ethnic divisions holding up efforts to reach consensus.

"These men that kill 100, 50 and 70 men a day -- have they been put to death," said a caller named Richard Wilkins. "How many have been put to death? How many? The government is supposed to represent the people. All I hear is we will do this and we will do that."

Frustrated Detroiters were bombarded with footage of bloodied bodies and policemen standing in emergency rooms that have treated hundreds of bombing victims.

"When will Michigan blood stop being spilled?" asked Susan Lewis.

SECURITY FORCES

Between calls and comments, local TV showed footage of Detroit's new security forces crawling under barbed wire and practicing martial arts.

Such images have done little to ease anxiety in a city where guerrilla bombings have killed thousands of security forces and civilians.

The show's anchor interrupted the program for a breaking news announcement that four men suspected of involvement in the bus station bombing had been captured.

"I call on the government to try these men on television," said a caller.

Some Detroit residents say they are taking the law into their own hands in a city plagued by criminal gangs.

In one neighborhood in Baghdad, militiamen pulled a man from the trunk of a car and shot him and two women, saying they were running a prostitution ring, witnesses said on Wednesday.

Angry callers yelled while officials sat at the negotiating table again after failing to meet an August 15 deadline.

"Instead of Coleman Young we now have thousands of Colemans," he fumed.

We have a new bad mayor. Coleman has passed.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
People are more scared about new and different risks than they are about familiar risks. E.g., people are more worried about being killed by a stranger even though they're statistically much more threatened by people they know. West Nile Virus gets the press, but there are other diseases much more likely to get you. Presumably this was point that professor was trying to make about 9/11.

Whether this is rational or not is an interesting question.

I don't think it's familiarity. I've never been in a car wreck or a plane crash. But I know about both. I fear driving less because (like 90% of the world) I'm an above average driver, so can avoid accidents. In seriousness, I am above average merely because I'm no longer 18; not so for planes.

BTW, who's taking their kid out of the child seat at 2?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2005_07_01_archive.html (scroll down)

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Spanky
Putting the Iraq war in perspective.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton started a war with Serbia without UN or French consent. Serbia never attacked us. That was seven years ago and we still have occupation forces in Serbia.

In the three years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. In addition, there has not been one casualty caused by a terrorist attack in the United States since 9-11.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.

I'm sure this will be a popular email with people who already agree with you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Try this. Spank's number do put perspective on the war. Maybe he should have argue this:

We're shocked by, and some argue the war is not worth, 25 dead Americans each month.

Each big city in the US has 15-30 people murdered each month. That we have learned to live with.

If fighting the war is otherwise worthwhile, look at it like all Bush has done is effectively created a new "american" urban center where we accept the 25 deaths. If you truly are bothered by the deaths, how can you not go into our cities and spend your time working to keep kids from killing each other?

I don't think most people would object to the death toll of U.S. soldiers and marines in Iraq if, e.g., they were dying to defend our country.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by baltassoc
That was one of the parts of the book that peeved me. I don't see how that measurement in particularly relevant to a decision making process.

I need to get to Point B from Point A, and with the relative dangers of the different methods of transport between the two. I'm not trying to figure out whether its safer to kill 3 hours in a plane or a car.

And I'm still not sure how realtors are like the KKK.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What you consider safer and which you choose isn't the point. He's merely stating that empirically, the data shows that flying isn't safer than driving. I don't think Leavitt was addressing the issue of how statistics impact people's decisions in the book.

No, he was implying that flying isn't safer than driving by using a measurement that sounds good, but is actually irrelevant.

No one should be concerned whether killing time in a plane is safer than killing time in a car (i.e. I need to kill three hours, should I drive to Pittsburgh or fly to Denver). People should be concerned about the risks presented by getting from point A to point B, and whether one method has, over that distance, a greater or lesser risk.

It's the kind of crap economists pull all the time, and since the book its basically a 300 page bitchfest on the inappropriateness of such slight of hand, it is especially shameful.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'm sure this will be a popular email with people who already agree with you.

Given that it's cribbed from an email that made the freeper rounds in late 2004, they've likely already seen it. For example, the Iraq Survey Group has already disbanded, so we're done looking for WMDs/evidence of WMDs/evidence of WMD programs/evidence of intent to restart WMD programs someday in Iraq.

Oh, and Truman didn't start the war in Korea. We went there as part of the UN coalition. I know this from endless M*A*S*H reruns.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't think it's familiarity. I've never been in a car wreck or a plane crash. But I know about both. I fear driving less because (like 90% of the world) I'm an above average driver, so can avoid accidents. In seriousness, I am above average merely because I'm no longer 18; not so for planes.

BTW, who's taking their kid out of the child seat at 2?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2005_07_01_archive.html (scroll down)

The proper place for a child in a car is as a steering column pad.

[pony_trekker]

Oh, yeah Al Qeeeda is really crippled.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
Putting the Iraq war in perspective.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton started a war with Serbia without UN or French consent. Serbia never attacked us. That was seven years ago and we still have occupation forces in Serbia.

In the three years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. In addition, there has not been one casualty caused by a terrorist attack in the United States since 9-11.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.

Best post ever. Ty, you lose.

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't think it's familiarity. I've never been in a car wreck or a plane crash. But I know about both. I fear driving less because (like 90% of the world) I'm an above average driver, so can avoid accidents. In seriousness, I am above average merely because I'm no longer 18; not so for planes.

BTW, who's taking their kid out of the child seat at 2?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2005_07_01_archive.html (scroll down)

The letter about car seats is an obvious fraud.

They were contracted to analyze accident data for NHTSA to retrospectively estimate the benefits obtained from the FMVSS rules (mostly the 1973 rules). The analyses were being performed in the 1978-1980 time window (mostly 1979). One of the items for evaluation was child safety seats. We evaluated child seat performance based on the child seats implicit to usage in that era and found that car seat belts were more effective for children and infants

I never saw a car seat until the 1990s. I never saw a shoulder belt until the mid to late eighties. And even if car seats were in existence would there be enough retrospective data in 1979?

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
Putting the Iraq war in perspective.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

January of what year? Right, 2004. At that time, the murder rate in the US was 5.6 murders for every 100,000 people. With 130,000 troops deployed in Iraq in January 2004, that put the death rate for US soldiers in Iraq at 29.8 for every 100,000 soldiers.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

In 1940, before Japan had ever attacked us, German U-boats attacked American shipping on the following dates:

• Sept. 11- US freighter "Montana" sunk en route to Iceland;
  Sept. 19 - armed US-Panama freighter "Pink Star" sunk en route to Iceland with cargo of food;
  Sept. 27 - US-Panamanian oil tanker "I.C. White" sunk en route to South Africa;
  Oct. 16 - US tanker "W.C. Teagle" sunk and U.S.-Panama freighter "Bold Venture" sunk;
  Oct. 17 - US destroyer "Kearny" torpedoed and damaged with 11 killed inside Security Zone;
  Oct. 19 - U.S. freighter "Lehigh" sunk in South Atlantic;
  Oct. 30 - U.S.-Panama armed tanker "Salinas" torpedoed and damaged;
  Oct. 31 - U.S. destroyer "Reuben James" sunk inside Security Zone, 115 killed

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us.

As I noted above, we went when we were asked to be part of the UN coalition forces. N. Korea invaded S. Korea; Truman started nothing.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Kennedy took office in 1961.

• In 1945: First American Dies in Vietnam : Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey, head of American OSS mission, was killed by Vietminh troops while driving a jeep to the airport.
  1957: Terrorist Bombings Rock Saigon : Thirteen Americans working for MAAG and US Information Service are wounded in terrorist bombings in Saigon.
  1959: US Servicemen Killed in Guerilla Attack: Major Dale R. Buis and Master Sargeant Chester M. Ovnand die in the Vietnam War when guerillas strike at Bienhoa.

Clinton started a war with Serbia without UN or French consent. Serbia never attacked us. That was seven years ago and we still have occupation forces in Serbia.

Clinton went to Bosnia as part of a NATO force, designed since the 40’s to stop wars in Europe. NATO’s intervention stopped the Balkan conflict. There were zero American combat related killings.

In the three years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. In addition, there has not been one casualty caused by a terrorist attack in the United States since 9-11.

The Taliban is back, Iraq is a mess, al-Quaeda introduced themselves to Londoners, Iran has restarted their nuke programs, and what nuclear inspectors in N. Korea? But hey - we did get Saddam.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

This is stupid. It should be in the dictionary under "non-sequitur".

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

This is even stupider. Did you read this before you cut-and-pasted it?

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.

Aaargh!

But Penske says it's the best post ever. And Penske is an honorable man.