Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I keep reading this week that the Pope defeated Communism. Which is excellent, really, and makes it ever sadder than he's dead, but it makes me wonder why we wasted all that money on defense in the 1980s, and for that matter why all the conservatives are getting misty-eyed instead of telling the Pope's supporters to get off Reagan's corner (ho).

The Pope played a part, as did Thatcher, Walesa, and a host of others, but Reagan was captain of the ship.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Gattigap
There's a joke in there somewhere about the Log Cabin Republicans having more companions these days on the outside of the Big Tent looking in, but an adequate punchline eludes.

I was thinking skin care.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The Pope played a part, as did Thatcher, Walesa, and a host of others, but Reagan was captain of the ship.

When I read stuff like this, I think the Pope made much more difference than the marginal increases in defense expenditures over which Reagan presided. Which is to say that Communism failed because its subjects started to believe it could and would fail, not because we had more and better tanks.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky
DeLay is only going down if a prosecutor takes him down. He raises way too much money, and has way too much support.

Well, not necessarily in District 22.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
When I read stuff like this, I think the Pope made much more difference than the marginal increases in defense expenditures over which Reagan presided. Which is to say that Communism failed because its subjects started to believe it could and would fail, not because we had more and better tanks.

there had been such challenges by the enslaved peoples to the USSR before and they were met by tanks- (think '68)

The pope may have started the fire, but Reagan scared the Soviets from putting it out, plus he made clear they couldn't keep up either--

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
there had been such challenges by the enslaved peoples to the USSR before and they were met by tanks- (think '68)

The pope may have started the fire, but Reagan scared the Soviets from putting it out, plus he made clear they couldn't keep up either--

Not to let the facts get in the way of your hagiography or anything, but would you explain to me where Reagan fits into this picture?

• The collapse of the Berlin Wall was the culminating point of the revolutionary changes sweeping east central Europe in 1989. Throughout the Soviet bloc, reformers assumed power and ended more than 40 years of dictatorial communist rule. The reform movement that ended communism in east central Europe began in Poland. Solidarity, an anti-communist trade union and social movement, had forced Poland's communist government to recognize it in 1980 through a wave of strikes that gained international attention. In 1981, Poland's communist authorities, under pressure from Moscow, declared martial law, arrested Solidarity's leaders, and banned the democratic trade union. The ban did not bring an end to Solidarity. The movement simply went underground, and the rebellious Poles organized their own civil society, separate from the communist government and its edicts.
  
  In 1985, the assumption of power in the Soviet Union by a reformer, Mikhail Gorbachev, paved the way for political and economic reforms in east central Europe. Gorbachev abandoned the "Brezhnev Doctrine"--the Soviet Union's policy of intervening with military force, if necessary, to preserve communist rule in the region. Instead, he encouraged the local communist leaders to seek new ways of gaining popular support for their rule. In Hungary, the communist government initiated reforms in 1989 that led to the sanctioning of a multiparty system and competitive elections. In Poland, the communists entered into round-table talks with a reinvigorated Solidarity. As a result, Poland held its first competitive elections since before World War II, and in 1989, Solidarity formed the first noncommunist government within the Soviet bloc since 1948. Inspired by their neighbors' reforms, east Germans took to the streets in the summer and fall of 1989 to call for reforms, including freedom to visit West Berlin and West Germany. Moscow's refusal to use military force to buoy the regime of East German leader Erich Honecker led to his replacement and the initiation of political reforms, leading up to the fateful decision to open the border crossings on the night of November 9, 1989.
  
  In the wake of the collapse of the Berlin Wall, Czechs and Slovaks took to the streets to demand political reforms in Czechoslovakia. Leading the demonstrations in Prague was dissident playwright Vaclav Havel, co-founder of the reform group Charter 77. The Communist Party of Czechoslovakia quietly and peacefully transferred rule to Havel and the Czechoslovak reformers in what was later dubbed the "Velvet Revolution." In Romania, the communist regime of hardliner Nicolae Ceausescu was overthrown by popular protest and force of arms in December 1989. Soon, the communist parties of Bulgaria and Albania also ceded power.
  
  The revolutions of 1989 marked the death knell of communism in Europe. As a result, not only was Germany reunified in 1990, but soon, revolution spread to the Soviet Union itself. After surviving a hard-line coup attempt in 1991, Gorbachev was forced to cede power in Russia to Boris Yeltsin, who oversaw the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
  
  The collapse of communism in east central Europe and the Soviet Union marked the end of the Cold War. The U.S. long-term policy of containing Soviet expansion while encouraging democratic reform in central and eastern Europe through scientific and cultural exchanges, information policy (e.g., Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty), and the U.S. own example, provided invaluable support to the peoples of east central Europe in their struggle for freedom.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Not to let the facts get in the way of your hagiography or anything, but would you explain to me where Reagan fits into this picture?

• The collapse of the Berlin Wall was the culminating point of the revolutionary changes sweeping east central Europe in 1989. Throughout the Soviet bloc, reformers assumed power and ended more than 40 years of dictatorial communist rule. The reform movement that ended communism in east central Europe began in Poland. Solidarity, an anti-communist trade union and social movement, had forced Poland's communist government to recognize it in 1980 through a wave of strikes that gained international attention. In 1981, Poland's communist authorities, under pressure from Moscow, declared martial law, arrested Solidarity's leaders, and banned the democratic trade union. The ban did not bring an end to Solidarity. The movement simply went underground, and the rebellious Poles organized their own civil society, separate from the communist government and its edicts.
  
  In 1985, the assumption of power in the Soviet Union by a reformer, Mikhail Gorbachev, paved the way for political and economic reforms in east central Europe. Gorbachev abandoned the "Brezhnev Doctrine"--the Soviet Union's policy of intervening with military force, if necessary, to preserve communist rule in the region. Instead, he encouraged the local communist leaders to seek new ways of gaining popular support for their rule. In Hungary, the communist government initiated reforms in 1989 that led to the sanctioning of a multiparty system and competitive elections. In Poland, the communists entered into round-table talks with a reinvigorated Solidarity. As a result, Poland held its first competitive elections since before World War II, and in 1989, Solidarity formed the first noncommunist government within the Soviet bloc since 1948. Inspired by their neighbors' reforms, east Germans took to the streets in the summer and fall of 1989 to call for reforms, including freedom to visit West Berlin and West Germany. Moscow's refusal to use military force to buoy the regime of East German leader Erich Honecker led to his replacement and the initiation of political reforms, leading up to the fateful decision to open the border crossings on the night of November 9, 1989.
  
  In the wake of the collapse of the Berlin Wall, Czechs and Slovaks took to the streets to demand political reforms in Czechoslovakia. Leading the demonstrations in Prague was dissident playwright Vaclav Havel, co-founder of the reform group Charter 77. The Communist Party of Czechoslovakia quietly and peacefully transferred rule to Havel and the Czechoslovak reformers in what was later dubbed the "Velvet Revolution." In Romania, the communist regime of hardliner Nicolae Ceausescu was overthrown by popular protest and force of arms in December 1989. Soon, the communist parties of Bulgaria and Albania also ceded power.
  
  The revolutions of 1989 marked the death knell of communism in Europe. As a result, not only was Germany reunified in 1990, but soon, revolution spread to the Soviet Union itself. After surviving a hard-line coup attempt in 1991, Gorbachev was forced to cede power in Russia to Boris Yeltsin, who oversaw the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
  
  The collapse of communism in east central Europe and the Soviet Union marked the end of the Cold War. The U.S. long-term policy of containing Soviet expansion while encouraging democratic reform in central and eastern Europe through scientific and cultural exchanges, information policy (e.g., Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty), and the U.S. own example, provided invaluable support to the peoples of east central Europe in their struggle for freedom.

.

Show me where the pope fits into my plumbing stroy post on FB. It's about as relevant a question-
I was saying the Soviets would have smashed the rebellions with tanks, except they thought Reagan might not put up with that shit- Prove otherwise please

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
.

Show me where the pope fits into my plumbing stroy post on FB. It's about as relevant a question-
I was saying the Soviets would have smashed the rebellions with tanks, except they thought Reagan might not put up with that shit- Prove otherwise please

Actually, it was the youthful governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton, who deterred the Soviets from crushing the leaders of Solidarity and the Velvet Revolution. If you disagree, prove me wrong.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I was saying the Soviets would have smashed the rebellions with tanks, except they thought Reagan might not put up with that shit- Prove otherwise please

More seriously, how about this account:

• The first break in the Polish logjam occurred in 1985 when Gorbachev assumed leadership of the Soviet Union. Although Gorbachev in no way willed the demolition of the communist order in Poland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, his policies of glasnost' and perestroika inadvertently accelerated the indigenous systemic rot in those countries. As the literal and figurative bankruptcy of East European communism became obvious, apologists resorted more frequently to the Brezhnev Doctrine--the understanding that Moscow would use force to prevent ceding any territory once under its control--as the ultimate justification of the status quo. But the sustained liberalism of the Gorbachev era undermined the credibility of this last-ditch argument. The inhibiting fear of Red Army retaliation, which had blocked reform in Poland and elsewhere in earlier years, gradually faded. Hastening to identify itself with Gorbachev, the Jaruzelski team welcomed the spirit of reform wafting from the east and cautiously followed suit at home. By 1988 most political prisoners had been released, unofficial opposition groups were flourishing, and Solidarity, still nominally illegal, operated quite openly.
  
  In the meantime, however, economic malaise and runaway inflation had depressed Polish living standards and deepened the anger and frustration of society. In early 1988, strikes again were called in Gdansk and elsewhere, and a new generation of alienated workers called for representation by Solidarity and Walesa. Amid widespread predictions of a social explosion, Jaruzelski took the momentous step of beginning round table talks with the banned trade union and other opposition groups. This measure was taken over the objections of the still-formidable hard-line faction of the PZPR.
  
  After months of haggling, the round table talks yielded a historic compromise in early 1989: Solidarity would regain legal status and the right to post candidates in parliamentary elections (with the outcome guaranteed to leave the communists a majority of seats). Although to many observers the guarantee seemed a foolish concession by Solidarity at the time, the election of June 1989 swept communists from nearly all the contested seats, demonstrating that the PZPR's presumed advantages in organization and funding could not overcome society's disapproval of its ineptitude and oppression.
  
  Solidarity used its newly superior position to broker a coalition with various small parties that until then had been silent satellites of the PZPR. The coalition produced a noncommunist majority that formed a cabinet dominated by Solidarity. Totally demoralized and advised by Gorbachev to accept defeat, the PZPR held its final congress in January 1990. In August 1989, the Catholic intellectual Tadeusz Mazowiecki became prime minister of a government committed to dismantling the communist system and replacing it with a Western-style democracy and a free-market economy. By the end of 1989, the Soviet alliance had been swept away by a stunning succession of revolutions partly inspired by the Polish example. Suddenly, the history of Poland, and of its entire region, had entered the postcommunist era.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Actually, it was the youthful governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton, who deterred the Soviets from crushing the leaders of Solidarity and the Velvet Revolution. If you disagree, prove me wrong.

• To you, everybody's a flop. Your husband's a flop, I'm a flop.

Martha divulges the way she has habitually attacked George's weak spots in their tortured relationship. In a remarkable moment of self-revelation, she acknowledges her deep, authentic, triumphant love and bond with her soulmate:

• You're all flops. I am the Earth Mother, and you are all flops. (To herself) I disgust me. You know, there's only been one man in my whole life who's ever made me happy. Do you know that?...George, my husband...George, who is out somewhere there in the dark, who is good to me - whom I revile, who can keep learning the games we play as quickly as I can change them. Who can make me happy and I do not wish to be happy. Yes, I do wish to be happy. George and Martha: Sad, sad, sad...Whom I will not forgive for having come to rest; for having seen me and having said: yes, this will do; who has made the hideous, the hurting, the insulting mistake of loving me and must be punished for it. George and Martha: Sad, sad, sad...Some day, hah! Some night, some stupid, liquor-ridden night, I will go too far and I'll either break the man's back or I'll push him off for good which is what I deserve.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
True - but his wife? Check out what she does - "Mrs. DeLay provides big picture, long-term strategic guidance and helps with personnel decisions."* And her monthly paycheck is higher than the daughter's.

* I get that from my spouse for free - and often I don't even have to ask.

So your spouse is a nag, too?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
listen cowfuck, I don't know what chemicals in your brain changed that you start attacking me like this, but I have feelings and you hurt them routinely. I would rather you put me on ignore if you cannot communicate in a manner consistant with civilized discourse.

Yeah. I'm particularly sick and tired of the way she keeps calling you fat and unattractive. There's nothing slimeir than attacking someone constantly on what you perceive to be their button points, especially when you are doing so onthe basis of zero knowledge.

I just hate it when people do that to you, poor dear.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The Pope played a part, as did Thatcher, Walesa, and a host of others, but Reagan was captain of the ship.

True. Even if he did think it was a little tugboat on the Hudson most of the time.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by taxwonk
So your spouse is a nag, too?

Might be, but em's right all the time. Doesn't qualify.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Might be, but em's right all the time. Doesn't qualify.

That just makes it worse.