GO ABBA GO!!!

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I don't get it. I mean, I get it, but don't know how it relates to anything.

Two weeks ago we were discussing whether Charlie Weis inherited a good notre dame team from Willingham.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
What exactly was insulting about it?

I think that it being a one-year deal was probably the issue, more so than the money. It seems that in sports (at least for coaches and management), only being under contract for a year is a bad thing.

As for the substantive issue of coaching and playoffs and championships, it is a hard thing to figure. Sure, Joe had a crappy record pre-Yankees, and won early with Showalter's players, but Buck wasn't exactly making things happen with the same players. Some times, for whatever reason, a coach can build a team, but not take them over the top. But he can with another team -- Tony Dungy built the Bucs, but didn't win a championship until he made it to the Colts. The reverse is true, too -- Davy Johnson won with the Mets, but not the Reds or Orioles.

In short, we are about to see whether the Yankees return to late 1970s form or late 1980s form.

Obligatory sex content -- in the early 1970s, two Yankees pitchers embraced the zeitgeist by engaging in a little key party action of their own. They literally swapped spouses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Peterson

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Not Bob
I think that it being a one-year deal was probably the issue, more so than the money. It seems that in sports (at least for coaches and management), only being under contract for a year is a bad thing.

I think he earned enough to be given either a 3 year contract or a private discussion of why they weren't going to give him 3 years and the opportunity to let them know whether he'd be interested in less. But I still don't think the offer is insulting. I bet he couldn't get one team out there to match it.

Originally posted by Not Bob
As for the substantive issue of coaching and playoffs and championships, it is a hard thing to figure. Sure, Joe had a crappy record pre-Yankees, and won early with Showalter's players, but Buck wasn't exactly making things happen with the same players. Some times, for whatever reason, a coach can build a team, but not take them over the top. But he can with another team -- Tony Dungy built the Bucs, but didn't win a championship until he made it to the Colts. The reverse is true, too -- Davy Johnson won with the Mets, but not the Reds or Orioles.

I never understand this criticism. Dungy probably would have won the year after he left. Showalter finally had a chance at a full season with that core group and it was snatched away. It seems to me that they would have won, but for the fact that they were fired before given the chance. And then someone else comes in and gets all the credit. Happened to Showalter twice. Raw deal.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Two new restaurants opened within a block of my office in the last few months. One is a very nice steakhouse, the other is an upscale asian thing.

I just found out they're both chains, nice chains, but chains.

It's one thing that the concept of a unique store is about dead, but do my meals also have to become predictable corporate selections? I don' t remember the last time something new was independant. Are independant restaurants dying out?

if this is all the future holds, I don't know if I can gone on.

You can go on. You must go on. Even in Detroit, I am certain that, every year, young inspired chefs open innovative restaurants that serve excellent food and fine beers, wines, and cocktails without the crushing banality of, for example, a McCormick & Schmicks. You will be able to dine on foods that are not created solely to serve the ego of a megalomaniacal celebrity chef, but are also not the product of extensive focus group testing in Indianapolis. Go and find those restaurants, Hank. Do not submit. Food is love, Hank. And there is no love in chain restaurant's parnet company's corporate boardroom.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
What exactly was insulting about it? The fact that if he couldn't get us to the Series, he wouldn't have an automatic extension? Surely it wasn't the money. Or is he implying that making less for the next contract (even though it would be more than any other manager in the League) was beneath him. Or maybe it was the incentives for the amount he could earn above $5,000,000?

I think they made the offer knowing he'd turn it down. I've said this already. But it's not exactly an insult. I think Hank was trying to say, "The fact that we overpaid him in the past does not make this contract an insult, especially since he has underachieved with the teams he had that weren't the product of other management."

I think it's an insult to him to suggest that he needs incentives to be motivated to win. It's one thing to structure a deal like that when you're signing someone to a contract for the first time; it's another to do it when the guy's been working for you for twelve years. If they think he's underperforming, they should tell him to take a hike. You only structure the deal that way if you think he's underperforming but that waving some money at him will bring him around.

Moreso because that team did such a remarkable job this year of returning from the dead, something I attribute to Torre's guidance.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
EEEEEEWWWWWWWWW.

OK, I retract the missing you thing. That is really just skin-crawlingly icky.

you're telling me. i had to take an anti-vomiting pill before I even tried to type that post.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Two new restaurants opened within a block of my office in the last few months. One is a very nice steakhouse, the other is an upscale asian thing.

I just found out they're both chains, nice chains, but chains.

It's one thing that the concept of a unique store is about dead, but do my meals also have to become predictable corporate selections? I don' t remember the last time something new was independant. Are independant restaurants dying out?

if this is all the future holds, I don't know if I can gone on.

Check and see if the Slow Food movement claims any of your local chefs as converts. Monica Pope here in Houston is a rather amazing advocate for locally grown and prepared food that's really excellent. The chefs who have bought into the idea are a very loose confederation, and I'm not sure that there are all that many of them, but I like the idea quite a bit.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
You can go on. You must go on. Even in Detroit, I am certain that, every year, young inspired chefs open innovative restaurants that serve excellent food and fine beers, wines, and cocktails without the crushing banality of, for example, a McCormick & Schmicks. You will be able to dine on foods that are not created solely to serve the ego of a megalomaniacal celebrity chef, but are also not the product of extensive focus group testing in Indianapolis. Go and find those restaurants, Hank. Do not submit. Food is love, Hank. And there is no love in chain restaurant's parnet company's corporate boardroom.

Sure, but is your "inspired" chef going to give you a 3-course dinner where you can have not only the Jack Daniels Chicken and shrimp, but also FRIED MAC & CHEESE and Oreo chocolate cake?







I didn't think so.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Check and see if the Slow Food movement claims any of your local chefs as converts. Monica Pope here in Houston is a rather amazing advocate for locally grown and prepared food that's really excellent. The chefs who have bought into the idea are a very loose confederation, and I'm not sure that there are all that many of them, but I like the idea quite a bit.

Portland is U.S. slowfood central. You should visit.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I never understand this criticism. Dungy probably would have won the year after he left. Showalter finally had a chance at a full season with that core group and it was snatched away. It seems to me that they would have won, but for the fact that they were fired before given the chance. And then someone else comes in and gets all the credit. Happened to Showalter twice. Raw deal.

You are so incredibly, completely, and totally wrong about this that I cannot continue the discussion.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Even in Detroit,

the only people who can't say this are you, violins and notbob*, but you guys can't. abba can't either, but she wouldn't because she have to repeat the "apologizing" step of the 12 steps.

Arguing about whether Minneapolis or Detroit is more cosmo is kind of like Wonk and Ty arguing about who knows more about hip hop, isn't it?

*maybe B&B but I'm not sure where she lives.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the only people who can't say this are you, violins and notbob*, but you guys can't. abba can't either, but she wouldn't because she have to repeat the "apologizing" step of the 12 steps.

Arguing about whether Minneapolis or Detroit is more cosmo is kind of like Wonk and Ty arguing about who knows more about hip hop, isn't it?

*maybe B&B but I'm not sure where she lives.

Because I live in Minneapolis and know that, even here, there are many hidden gems of restaurants to be found, I am perhaps more qualified than anyone to say that, even in Detroit, you should be able to find ample fine dining experiences withough having to submit to soulless corporate banality.

The fried Mac & Cheese balls that Ollie posted look pretty good, though.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Sure, but is your "inspired" chef going to give you a 3-course dinner where you can have not only the Jack Daniels Chicken and shrimp, but also FRIED MAC & CHEESE and Oreo chocolate cake?

I didn't think so.

That Argentinian rubbed flatiron steak thing sounds pretty tasty.

Would you rather have good food that's been test-marketed a lot, or crappy food that someone came up with independently?

ETA Anyway, I don't see what is so god-awful wrong about restaurants of which there is more than one. If there were some great restaurant with great recipes and a nice ambiance in Detroit or Minneapolis or Portland, I would not be offended if someone recreated it someplace close to me (preferably w/in half a mile) so that I, too, could enjoy it.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Because I live in Minneapolis and know that, even here, there are many hidden gems of restaurants to be found, I am perhaps more qualified than anyone to say that, even in Detroit, you should be able to find ample fine dining experiences withough having to submit to soulless corporate banality.

The fried Mac & Cheese balls that Ollie posted look pretty good, though.

I was interested in the angel chocolate pinwheels (!!!). And I have access to all sorts of non-chain restaurants! The only TGIFriday's that I know of, however, is on the way to the airport and is owned by Magic Johnson. I'm sure he hangs out there. Regularly.

[SlaveNoMore]

[iThurgreedMarshall [/i]
I think it's stupid that he would say this publicly, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the statement in and of itself.

Torre was a losing manager when he got to the Yankees. He was given a great team that was built by Gene Michael and Buck Showalter. He did great things with that team, but once they were gone, he hasn't done much with the highest payroll in baseball. Pitching is definitely to blame for us not going deeper, but what other manager couldn't bring the Yankees to the playoffs every year?

FWIW, the headline of the NY Post the day after he was hired was "Clueless Joe"