General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq. - Page 149

Penske_Account · 08-09-2005, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
As usual, you're not . . . wait, can I have bilmore?

Reporting for duty........

nononono · 08-09-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Nice try, but no one is forgetting the misogyny you recently exhibited on the issue of natural childbirth v. drug assisted deliveries. I would suggest starting over with a new sock. PM me if you want one of my inactive ones. And don't forget, the babyjesus still loves you, platonically (except in the confessional, anything goes there)

Actually, I'd say Atticus is on-track for another skirmish, given the "easy as falling off a log" and "you really should stick with it" comments, coming from a man. It's that same tone coming through again, one that I wouldn't probably use with new mothers, even having gone to hell and back (personally) with it.

nononono · 08-09-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
What you need is the American Society of Pediatrics' "Caring for Your Baby and Young Child: Birth to Age 5. This is the nuts-and-bolts stuff.

You and I do not need any books about child development. You and I might want them, because we pride ourselves on taking control of a situation by anticipating it and preparing ourselves for it, usually by reading, which is the way nerds feel in control. But reference books can be a trap for people who naturally establish high expectations for themselves and, by extension, their children. Weight gain becomes a competition against the percentiles first as a joke --- usually by Dad. But it's no joke when your kid's in the bottom 10% and you're thinking this is the first thing you've ever undertaken at which you're slowly failing. It's not funny when you're sobbing in the middle of the night because your kid is crying and you can't figure out why, and you went to fucking Princeton, for God's sake. Okay, it is funny, but not to you, at least not right then.

If you really want a child development book, my wife recommends anything by William Sears, but only if you're inclined to like attachment parenting. If you're going to be returning to work and already know this, this will probably not be valuable to you as a guide.
Don't read "Babywise." Don't read "What to Expect." Seek out the best parent you know, and take him/her to coffee once a week. Maybe consider reading Operating Instructions. But mostly, it's the coffee.

It was advice I read on this board that kept me from going into shock when my kid had a febrile seizure two weeks ago. It was probably in one of the books on our bookshelf, but I wouldn't have known that. I needed to have once heard a story about a particular kid who had such a high fever that he had a seizure --- and it turned out totally fine, because kids are weird and funny and totally different from adults. And I got that here, not from Dr. Spock.

Good Lord. Yes, if you're that neurotic about it, then by all means, stay away from scary info about "norms" and such. But if you can read without feeling threatened, they can be interesting, particularly as the kidlets get older. But sorry, if you're worried about your kid being at 10% in weight - don't even get the numbers. And maybe invest in a book that talks about separating your own ambitions from those of your kids, and not trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone · 08-09-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Sheesh Ollie, your not doing much for your own state's tourism effourts. How about the Oregon coast? I have been there in mid-late fall, its beautiful. Really any time of year. Lots of good beer, wine. The beaches are empty and dog friendly. There's an aquarium AND a wax museum in Newport. What more could you want?

Shhhhhhhhhh. But, yeah. As part owner of a little beach shack on the coast, I agree. By early November, however, some rain is likely.

robustpuppy · 08-09-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nononono
Actually, I'd say Atticus is on-track for another skirmish, given the "easy as falling off a log" and "you really should stick with it" comments, coming from a man. It's that same tone coming through again, one that I wouldn't probably use with new mothers, even having gone to hell and back (personally) with it.

Plus, my Mommy and Daddy are dead. I can't call them for advice. Moreover, I wouldn't take any from my Dad anyway.

The insensitive living-functional-family-having BASTARD!!!!

nononono · 08-09-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Plus, my Mommy and Daddy are dead. I can't call them for advice. Moreover, I wouldn't take any from my Dad anyway.

The insensitive living-functional-family-having BASTARD!!!!

Heh. Hey, I'm just looking out for those who haven't experienced the bleeding and zinging pain yet! Not that you will, since it's easy and all.

Atticus Grinch · 08-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nononono
Heh. Hey, I'm just looking out for those who haven't experienced the bleeding and zinging pain yet! Not that you will, since it's easy and all.

I'm gonna get lectures from YOU about finding peace with being in the unfortunate minority percentile?

Penske_Account · 08-09-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nononono
Actually, I'd say Atticus is on-track for another skirmish, given the "easy as falling off a log" and "you really should stick with it" comments, coming from a man. It's that same tone coming through again, one that I wouldn't probably use with new mothers, even having gone to hell and back (personally) with it.

2. He really needs to dial it back a few notches if he wants to play nice here. I try and I try and I try to help him and wadduiget? nada. But what i can say, I'm a giver not a taker.

Penske_Account · 08-09-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Shhhhhhhhhh. But, yeah. As part owner of a little beach shack on the coast, I agree. By early November, however, some rain is likely.

Cool, so its an open invite, right?

Quote:

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
By early November, however, some rain is likely.

First year I was out here we spent Thanksgiving in Cannon Beach. It was a winter storm the whole weekend. 40s, high winds and downpouring rain the whole time. It was awesome. We would take the dogs out into the bluster for an hour or so, come back, jump in the hot tub and make a fire.

Ah, the kid-less days.....

bill killer · 08-09-2005, 02:46 PM

I second the Weissbluth recommendation. Skip the rest of the sleep books. Who knew sleep theory could be so freakin' ideological?

08-09-2005, 02:48 PM

I like anything by Dr. Sears also: I have The Baby Book, The Pregnancy Book, and The Breastfeeding Book - all good. I also have a few of his others that I'm not so sure about - The Discipline Book and another one - they are a bit to AP-y for me, but I love the 3 listed above.

I have the Mayo clinic book - not nearly as detailed as I would have liked, but not bad for free. It's actually in my pile of stuff to go to charity.

Ditto B&B on the nursing - it is definitely no picnic the first few weeks, so don't make any decisions until at least a month in. LLL has a good book. Also, check out www.kellymom.com and www.breastfeeding.com.

If any one suggests Babywise to you - Google "Ezzo" and see what you get. It's not good.

I also liked Weisbluth - lots of research in there. I also got The Baby Whisperer - claims a non-CIO way to get your kid to sleep. It may actually work for some babies, but not mine and WILL make you feel horribly guilty if you need to use CIO at all - like you are scarring your kid for life.

nononono · 08-09-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I'm gonna get lectures from YOU about finding peace with being in the unfortunate minority percentile?

Do I know you? Geez, I was one of the more sympathetic-to-you ones in the whole natural vs. epidural issue. I'm not too interested in going bare knuckles with you.

bill killer · 08-09-2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
[...]
I have the Mayo clinic book - not nearly as detailed as I would have liked, but not bad for free. It's actually in my pile of stuff to go to charity.

Ditto B&B on the nursing - it is definitely no picnic the first few weeks, so don't make any decisions until at least a month in. LLL has a good book. Also, check out www.kellymom.com and www.breastfeeding.com.

If any one suggests Babywise to you - Google "Ezzo" and see what you get. It's not good.

I also liked Weisbluth - lots of research in there. I also got The Baby Whisperer - claims a non-CIO way to get your kid to sleep. It may actually work for some babies, but not mine and WILL make you feel horribly guilty if you need to use CIO at all - like you are scarring your kid for life.

I agree with the tall one about the Mayo book - way too general. Babywise is useful for the ~3-hr cycle, but otherwise alarming. The Baby Whisperer annoyed the shit out of me (and brought me to tears at one low point) - but I started feeling better when I realized that her main qualifications appear to be that she (a) is British and (b) has worked for celebrities in LA.

nononono · 08-09-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bill killer
I agree with the tall one about the Mayo book - way too general. Babywise is useful for the ~3-hr cycle, but otherwise alarming. The Baby Whisperer annoyed the shit out of me (and brought me to tears at one low point) - but I started feeling better when I realized that her main qualifications appear to be that she (a) is British and (b) has worked for celebrities in LA.

Baby Whisperer didn't apply at all to my first (I got so irritated with that damn book), but the second one fit right into that EASY schedule. Of course, she probably would have done that whether or not I tried to foist it on her, but it was so gratifying to have a kid do something in regularish cycles. Both kids continue in their respective styles still.

Atticus Grinch · 08-09-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nononono
Do I know you? Geez, I was one of the more sympathetic-to-you ones in the whole natural vs. epidural issue. I'm not too interested in going bare knuckles with you.

I have nothing against you personally. I wanted to point out the irony: First, you told me that it should be easy to get over the fact that something you expected (weight gain) was difficult, and then you jumped all over me for suggesting that nursing becomes easy for most people even though in your case it did not. I apologize if I was overly harsh in how I made that point. I know from direct experience that nursing is a subject in which some people can be judgmental. I am not, but I do think it's possible to make bad decisions based on anecdotal evidence of the occasions in which nursing is impossible. It does happen, but it's the exception, not the rule. Would you accept advice on what to do based on the exception rather than the rule? Can I share my anecdotal evidence without you feeling attacked?

Can we all just agree that we can talk about our own parenting experiences on this board without being accused of implicitly saying "You are bad and wrong for having done differently"? Trust me, if I think something is bad and wrong, I'll actually say so, and if I think someone is bad and wrong for having done something, I'll say that too.