"I'm GGG and I approve this message."

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This story is almost certainly overblown, but it should leave conservatives (e.g.) more comfortable with an Obama presidency.

Trust me it won't. The business community is scrared shitless of Obama. In other elections there has been this idea of supporting both sides, so whoever wins you have influence. I was at the California Republican Party convention this weekend and the business community was there in full force and they were scared. They believe (and perception is reality in politics) if Obama is elected that the business environment in the US will be destroyed. Many were talking about moving as much production and other stuff overseas before his inaugeration.

If Obama gets the nomination they will put their full support behind the Republicans in Congressional races (hopefully electing a Republican congress to stop Obama if he is elected) and will fully back McCain (even though they don't like it much). The Silicon Valley CEOs did not fear Gore or Kerry, and don't fear Clinton but Obama will make them hard core Republican supporters.

My guess is if he is elected, thet next day the stockmarket will drop like a depth charge and long term interest rates will skyrocket.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Spanky
Trust me it won't. The business community is scrared shitless of Obama. In other elections there has been this idea of supporting both sides, so whoever wins you have influence. I was at the California Republican Party convention this weekend and the business community was there in full force and they were scared. They believe (and perception is reality in politics) if Obama is elected that the business environment in the US will be destroyed. Many were talking about moving as much production and other stuff overseas before his inaugeration.

If Obama gets the nomination they will put their full support behind the Republicans in Congressional races (hopefully electing a Republican congress to stop Obama if he is elected) and will fully back McCain (even though they don't like it much). The Silicon Valley CEOs did not fear Gore or Kerry, and don't fear Clinton but Obama will make them hard core Republican supporters.

My guess is if he is elected, thet next day the stockmarket will drop like a depth charge and long term interest rates will skyrocket.

If Hillary had any fucking guts she'd come right out and say "This man is Jimmy Carter II. You're fucked if you elect this guy. Fucked."

I'd borrow from lewis Black to describe this election. "Keep false hope alive!"

Elect him. Lets see if he can invent a new form of math. That seems to be the aim of every new President.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Spanky
Trust me it won't. The business community is scrared shitless of Obama. In other elections there has been this idea of supporting both sides, so whoever wins you have influence. I was at the California Republican Party convention this weekend and the business community was there in full force and they were scared. They believe (and perception is reality in politics) if Obama is elected that the business environment in the US will be destroyed. Many were talking about moving as much production and other stuff overseas before his inaugeration.

If Obama gets the nomination they will put their full support behind the Republicans in Congressional races (hopefully electing a Republican congress to stop Obama if he is elected) and will fully back McCain (even though they don't like it much). The Silicon Valley CEOs did not fear Gore or Kerry, and don't fear Clinton but Obama will make them hard core Republican supporters.

My guess is if he is elected, thet next day the stockmarket will drop like a depth charge and long term interest rates will skyrocket.

I'm puzzled. If the business community is so frightened of Obama, how come they keep sending him so much money?

Or is it not Wall Street you're after, but these guys?

They seem to like the Democrats, too.

The central legacy of the Clinton administration is that Wall Street now supports the Democrats more than the Republicans. It's not much of a legacy, but they will bequeath it to Obama. The i-Bankers, in particular, show up at the top of both Clinton's and Obama's fundraising rosters. But its the big reason why Dems now outraise Republicans.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Spanky
Trust me it won't. The business community is scrared shitless of Obama. In other elections there has been this idea of supporting both sides, so whoever wins you have influence. I was at the California Republican Party convention this weekend and the business community was there in full force and they were scared. They believe (and perception is reality in politics) if Obama is elected that the business environment in the US will be destroyed. Many were talking about moving as much production and other stuff overseas before his inaugeration.

If Obama gets the nomination they will put their full support behind the Republicans in Congressional races (hopefully electing a Republican congress to stop Obama if he is elected) and will fully back McCain (even though they don't like it much). The Silicon Valley CEOs did not fear Gore or Kerry, and don't fear Clinton but Obama will make them hard core Republican supporters.

My guess is if he is elected, thet next day the stockmarket will drop like a depth charge and long term interest rates will skyrocket.

I don't get that.

I don't get it to begin with, but even if I did, seems to me that Obama would have several months after nomination to convince business leaders that he's not the Antichrist as you've described above. After all, I don't see how McCain is the safe harbor - he repeats Republican bromides, but IIRC his tenure in Congress reveals an absence of economic philosophy.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I'm puzzled. If the business community is so frightened of Obama, how come they keep sending him so much money?

Or is it not Wall Street you're after, but these guys?

They seem to like the Democrats, too.

The central legacy of the Clinton administration is that Wall Street now supports the Democrats more than the Republicans. It's not much of a legacy, but they will bequeath it to Obama. The i-Bankers, in particular, show up at the top of both Clinton's and Obama's fundraising rosters. But its the big reason why Dems now outraise Republicans.

This is because nothing is better for markets than fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets and less borrowing) and the lower long term interest rates that come with the government being a less massive player in the credit markets.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
It was Fringy that originally cited that page, not me. I cited the page on the document showing Federal outlays, and then she pointed out the page on discretionary spending in the same document. And I just transcribed the numbers from the page Fringy cited (Twice). So go back to Fringeys original cite, and tell me which numbers I transcribed incorrectly.

I think it is table 8.8 that she referred to on page 157.

I think I see why you think Bush I and the Congress reduced discretionary spending in his final year, but I think the drop shown for FY '92 is explained instead by this footnote at the end of the table:

• Note: Due to the effects of the Credit Reform Act of 1990 on the measurement and classification of Federal credit activities, the discretionary outlays for years prior to 1992 are not strictly comparable to those for 1992 and beyond.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Many were talking about moving as much production and other stuff overseas before his inaugeration.

I take it that they're worried that he'll repeal the Takings Clause and then nationalize key industries? If not that, then what?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Adder
This is because nothing is better for markets than fiscal responsibility (balanced budgets and less borrowing) and the lower long term interest rates that come with the government being a less massive player in the credit markets.

You talked to anyone on Wall St lately or are you just reading the papers? I don't have a single friend there who's voting for Obama. They were all voting for Hillary, and only then because it seemed an inevitability. Obama is not Hillary. Now they're voting for McCain.

As to interest rates staying low, have you looked at them in the last seven years that we've had a proactive Fed? The market thrives on volatility. Sure, people bitch about uncertainty, and I'm sure private equity isn't digging things, but a lot of people are making a lot of bets right now, and making a lot of money on them. And on top of that, they've got the Fed whipped into dropping the overnight rate every time another handful of banks admit another few billion in subprime losses. Things can't be all bad when you've basically taken over a govt agency setting monetary policy.

The Street Loves Democrats is myth. It's apolitical, but one thing is certain. It doesn't like the unknown. If it's throwing money at Obama, it's just hedging bets. What does it have to lose? It also gave loads of money to Edwards. It's only rational to duke both sides.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I take it that they're worried that he'll repeal the Takings Clause and then nationalize key industries? If not that, then what?

Comrade, please. Spanky knows that this is no mere co-inky-dink:

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I take it that they're worried that he'll repeal the Takings Clause and then nationalize key industries? If not that, then what?

this is going to be a weird election. there will be lots of people who just can't vote for a black guy, or not for a woman, or not for a really old guy. those factors will drive more votes than any issue.

but the weird thing will be that no one will admit any of that in public, so you'll see people getting attacked for other reasons.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I don't get that.

I don't get it to begin with, but even if I did, seems to me that Obama would have several months after nomination to convince business leaders that he's not the Antichrist as you've described above. After all, I don't see how McCain is the safe harbor - he repeats Republican bromides, but IIRC his tenure in Congress reveals an absence of economic philosophy.

The period before anyone knows what he'll do will scare a lot of people into rash behaviors which will negatively impact the economy. No one wants to be behind the curve because the moves that need to be made take forever and a day. I think uncertainty is worse than known looming problems for businesses.

If businesses pull back from investing, however, where do the banks put the money? They've got to crank out a certain # of performing loans, so would a pullback by big business possibly loosen credit for small businesses? Could Obama scare money into the little guy's pocket?

[Not Bob]

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Bob

Oh, really? Place that one. No Googling.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Oh, really? Place that one. No Googling.

Dude, the first re line you had was hard (haha!). I guessed (incorrectly) it was from "American Prayer." Then I googled, and got distracted by that shape shifter dude's web site. (David Ickes, not our own Shifty.)

This one? No google required. The soft parade has now begun, indeed.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Dude, the first re line you had was hard (haha!). I guessed (incorrectly) it was from "American Prayer." Then I googled, and got distracted by that shape shifter dude's web site. (David Ickes, not our own Shifty.)

This one? No google required. The soft parade has now begun, indeed.

Nah, the first one was easy. It's "Not to Touch the Earth."