Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
"A man looks in the abyss, there is nothing staring back at him. At that moment he discovers his character. That keeps the man out of the abyss."

-- Lou Mannheim, Wall Street

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Ensign Monk: Bud, give me a reading from your liquid oxygen gauge.
Virgil: [typing] 5 minuts worth
Lindsey Brigman: [shocked] What?
Alan "Hippy" Carnes: It took him *thirty* minutes just to get down there!
Lindsey Brigman: Bud! Do you hear me? You drop your weights and start back now, Bud. The gauge could be wrong. Do you hear me? Just drop your weights and start back now. The gauge could be wrong! The gauge could be wrong, you drop your weights and start back now!
Virgil: [typing] Going to stay awhile
Lindsey Brigman: No, you won't stay there, do you hear me, you drop your weights! You can breathe *shallow*, do you hear me? Bud, please listen to me, *please*, goddammit, you dragged me back from the bottomless pit, you can't leave me here *alone* now, please...
[sobs]
Lindsey Brigman: Oh God, Virgil, please... please...
Virgil: [typing] Don't cry baby. Knew this was one way ticket, but you know I had to come. Love you wife.

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Virgil: [over the phone] Brigman here. Yeah, Kirkhill, what's going on? Yeah, I'm calm. I'm a calm person. Is there some reason I shouldn't be calm?
[long pause, then... ]
Virgil: [furious] WHAT?

- The Abyss (1989)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
3 bullet holes in his forehead fired from 10 yards away? That's from the Pentagon, not from Ty.

People really hated Bidwell for taking them to Phoenix.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
3 bullet holes in his forehead fired from 10 yards away? That's from the Pentagon, not from Ty.

None of us know for sure, but --

(A) They were Rangers, not SF, and they are really good at shooting at things

(B) The public story said Tillman and an Afghani ally were up top on one side of a ravine taking fire from Rangers in vehicles below, and that -- after setting off colored smoke and other identifying signals to no avail -- he raised up from behind cover shouting "this is Pat F-ing Tillman."

That story is consistent with his being shot in the forehead, and three quick rounds closely grouped are well within the capability of a Ranger who fired before identifying his target. [That was a big issue the shooters were reprimanded for in the initial report.]

(C) That distance is an estimate -- and must be a bit imprecise -- but isn't really out of line with the official story as I understand it.

(D) Hank was referring to two comments made on the blog -- but he is nuts to say that no one had heard of Tillman before he died.

S_A_M

efs

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Now the question is, do they not want to talk about because the Tilman case is all about . . . . something bad happened over there, where an enemy attack caused grown men to cower in fear but left no visible sign, no spent shells, no dings in the equipment, no indication that any attack had occurred other than three holes in the head of one person that turned out to have been put there by U.S. ranger fire?

Ding, ding, ding! They did also kill one or two of the Afghani soldiers attached to the unit.

Having never been in a combat situation myself, I won't criticize their reactions except to say that its widely acknowledged as not a fine day for the Regiment.

S_A_M

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
even Ty's blog doesn't claim that as a fact. but. okay, he was murdered because (even though no one had heard of him before he died) once he came back he was going to have a press conference and denounce the Iraq war.

Do you guys not see how you degrade the memory of the man?

Does that sentiment extend to his mother?

• Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(C) That distance is an estimate -- and must be a bit imprecise -- but isn't really out of line with the official story as I understand it.

FWIW, the AP article indicates otherwise:

• "The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
  
  The doctors _ whose names were blacked out _ said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

All very odd and sad.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Ding, ding, ding! They did also kill one or two of the Afghani soldiers attached to the unit.

Having never been in a combat situation myself, I won't criticize their reactions except to say that its widely acknowledged as not a fine day for the Regiment.

S_A_M

No doubt that was just part of the cover up. Have they been autopsied? How far apart were the bullet wounds?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

All very odd and sad.

Sorry, as far as Tillman goes, I can't stop thinking caveat emptor. He could have made an impact a thousand different ways. I don't want to speak ill of him, but there's something undeniably queer about someone doing what he did. And I don't mean that in the cynical sense. His history inidicates that of a guy who walked to a very strange and contrarian drummer. Nothing wrong with that. But sometimes that shit'll cost you.

Here it did. He's gone, and it was a waste.

I've no doubt he annoyed many people. Doesn't sound like one to be reasoned with.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man

(B) The public story said Tillman and an Afghani ally were up top on one side of a ravine taking fire from Rangers in vehicles below, and that -- after setting off colored smoke and other identifying signals to no avail -- he raised up from behind cover shouting "this is Pat F-ing Tillman."

That story is consistent with his being shot in the forehead, and three quick rounds closely grouped are well within the capability of a Ranger who fired before identifying his target. [That was a big issue the shooters were reprimanded for in the initial report.]

S_A_M

efs

Not exactly.

• The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.
  
  It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
  
  But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
  
  The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Not exactly.

• The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.
  
  It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.
  
  But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
  
  The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

if there were no other bullets, just 3 clean to tillman's head, what was O'Neal scared of? honestly, you guys can't think past your bush hate at all.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
if there were no other bullets, just 3 clean to tillman's head, what was O'Neal scared of? honestly, you guys can't think past your bush hate at all.

I'm not sure. Let's have some hearings and find out.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
if there were no other bullets, just 3 clean to tillman's head, what was O'Neal scared of? honestly, you guys can't think past your bush hate at all.

I don't see Tillman's death as having much of anything to do with Bush -- the "Bush hate" myopia here is all yours.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
No doubt that was just part of the cover up. Have they been autopsied? How far apart were the bullet wounds?

Why would a general cover up fragging? Don't they usually fear they're next?

Or can I not handle the truth?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'm not sure. Let's have some hearings and find out.

Why not just an independent investigation outside the glare of the C-SPAN cameras?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Why would a general cover up fragging? Don't they usually fear they're next?

Or can I not handle the truth?

After what they did to Meg Ryan, they're capable of anything.