Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You can change the display size on your browser to make it larger, or just follow the link ("Graphic: Connections, Contradictions") on the NYT front page, which will size it better.

That is a laughable connection to draw. Look, Soros, Moore, Franken and the like are not affiliate with the Kerry campaign. Their interests may be alinged, but I do not attribute their actions to Kerry. Same rule applies here.

You were just praising him for his stance on 527s, which is (apparently) that all of them should be stopped from running ads.

No, I was praising him for staying above the fray, and contradicting Gatti's assertion that Bush backs the Swiftees.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
See here for an example.

I'm familiar with that, but it is the only example. I thought you were implying that he denounced moveon in general.

By the way, where were all of you to denounce the attacks on Bush by, in many cases, prominent DEMs, over the last year?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm familiar with that, but it is the only example. I thought you were implying that he denounced moveon in general.

No. Wasn't implying that. Similarly, I'm not asking Bush to distance himself from all anti-kerry ads, but this one thing.

By the way, where were all of you to denounce the attacks on Bush by, in many cases, prominent DEMs, over the last year?

That's kinda broad, so I'm not sure what you mean. As one example, I don't think you've had a single liberal on this board embrace Moore. As I recall, everyone's posted that they consider him an idiot.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by bilmore
It goes back to my delicious irony feelings with the whole ""Hey, I was in Viet Nam!" vs. the Swiftboat Guyz" thing, following, as it did, on a couple of years of the most vile, and for the most part unsubstantiated, character assassination ever seen, conducted by the same people who now are expressing disgust that Bush et al could stoop so low.

Wait, the people who handled Bush's campaign in the primaries against McCain now work for Kerry?

God, they really are mercenaries.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
No. Wasn't implying that. Similarly, I'm not asking Bush to distance himself from all anti-kerry ads, but this one thing.



That's kinda broad, so I'm not sure what you mean. As one example, I don't think you've had a single liberal on this board embrace Moore. As I recall, everyone's posted that they consider him an idiot.

I used to have a list but can't find it. Here are the ones I remember:

How bout Teddy stating that Bush hatched the war in Texas for political purposes?

How bout Sharpton calling him a thug?

How bout Kwase Mfumi comparing Bush to Hitler

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
That's kinda broad, so I'm not sure what you mean. As one example, I don't think you've had a single liberal on this board embrace Moore. As I recall, everyone's posted that they consider him an idiot.

But you won't condemn his movie, either. And if given the choice, you would have a beer (or two or three) with him.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I used to have a list but can't find it. Here are the ones I remember:

How bout Teddy stating that Bush hatched the war in Texas for political purposes?

How bout Sharpton calling him a thug?

How bout Kwase Mfumi comparing Bush to Hitler

How about the claims that Bush knew about 9/11 ahead of time? How about the claims that the war was just to make Halliburton richer? And on and on and on.

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by sgtclub
By the way, where were all of you to denounce the attacks on Bush by, in many cases, prominent DEMs, over the last year?

I've been lurking here for about three months or so. I've posted here only once before, thus, I'll first just identify myself as a democrat who's previously voted Bush Sr., Clinton, Clinton, Gore in the past four elections. However, following 9/11, I was very pleased that it seemed like our country was being run by adults instead of the "lob a few missiles" Gore/Clintonites. Truth be known, if the GOP were to change their positions on abortion, gay marriage, and separation of church and state, I'd probably switch political parties.

I'm no big fan of Kerry or Bush, leaving me undecided for this election.

One thing I'm curious about is why is everyone is so surprised when "the other side" does not denounce ads that attack "the other candidate"? Is all this outrage feigned to make this site more interesting or something?

Am I the only one who realizes that:
1) Kerry most likely has exagerrated his Vietnam/"Cambodia" stories to his benefit?
2) Bush most likely benefited from his family's connections to land his nat'l guard gig?
3) Kerry has actually put forth some proposals and is not running based solely on his service in Vietnam?
4) Fahrenheit 9/11 is propaganda loosely based on fact?
5) All politicians flip-flop often?
6) A bad decision is a bad decision. Showing conviction by sticking with a bad decision is not to be applauded.

Also, as for character assassinations, I suggest that both republicans and democrats do it, but that the GOP is simply better at it.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I used to have a list but can't find it. Here are the ones I remember:

How bout Teddy stating that Bush hatched the war in Texas for political purposes?

How bout Sharpton calling him a thug?

How bout Kwase Mfumi comparing Bush to Hitler

I don't remember these, but am not surprised by them.*

All are stupid comments, and I condemn them. I realize that this doesn't satisfy your criticism, and can only suggest that you bring these scurrilous accusations up at the time that they arise. (Come to think of it, Penske might, but when he couples it with a picture of a shirtless Teddy climbing onto a boat, it kinda diffuses his ostensible point).

* Except Mfumi. He should know that by uttering the name, he automatically loses.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
But you won't condemn his movie, either.

Sure I do. And even though I don't have a vested professional interest in having viewed it, I'm happy to condemn it without even having seen it, simply based on the news reports about allowing people to draw misleading inferences.

Anyone on the GOP side you know of willing to do something like that?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Sure I do. And even though I don't have a vested professional interest in having viewed it, I'm happy to condemn it without even having seen it, simply based on the news reports about allowing people to draw misleading inferences.

Anyone on the GOP side you know of willing to do something like that?

I am willing to condemn it without even having seen it, simply based on the news reports about allowing people to draw misleading inferences.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
Am I the only one who realizes that:
1) Kerry most likely has exagerrated his Vietnam/"Cambodia" stories to his benefit?
2) Bush most likely benefited from his family's connections to land his nat'l guard gig?
3) Kerry has actually put forth some proposals and is not running based solely on his service in Vietnam?
4) Fahrenheit 9/11 is propaganda loosely based on fact?
5) All politicians flip-flop often?
6) A bad decision is a bad decision. Showing conviction by sticking with a bad decision is not to be applauded.

If we were all as irresponsible as you, yeah, we just might take this sort of approach to things. And then, after internet traffic drops to zero and all the new dot-coms bomb, late night TV reverts to Dr. Phil reruns, half of us are laid off because we find that (once we all stop posting our political passions) we really only need half of us to accomplish our work, our overly liberal neighbors want to TALK to us again, and we all have to stop reading news and actually spend time with our spouses, we can all sit back and rue the day you ever found your keyboard.

Now, either insult someone gratuitously, or make up something bad about Bush or Kerry. Either way, this damn rabblerousing needs to stop.

[Gattigap]

As a demonstration of the creative possibilities of political polling, here's a poll indicating that Bush is within 3 points of Kerry in California. Anyone else buy this?

Hank, I know you've got big action going at the national level, but wonder if you're interested in playing at the state level.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
I've been lurking here for about three months or so. I've posted here only once before, thus, I'll first just identify myself as a democrat who's previously voted Bush Sr., Clinton, Clinton, Gore in the past four elections. However, following 9/11, I was very pleased that it seemed like our country was being run by adults instead of the "lob a few missiles" Gore/Clintonites. Truth be known, if the GOP were to change their positions on abortion, gay marriage, and separation of church and state, I'd probably switch political parties.

I'm no big fan of Kerry or Bush, leaving me undecided for this election.

One thing I'm curious about is why is everyone is so surprised when "the other side" does not denounce ads that attack "the other candidate"? Is all this outrage feigned to make this site more interesting or something?

Am I the only one who realizes that:
1) Kerry most likely has exagerrated his Vietnam/"Cambodia" stories to his benefit?
2) Bush most likely benefited from his family's connections to land his nat'l guard gig?
3) Kerry has actually put forth some proposals and is not running based solely on his service in Vietnam?
4) Fahrenheit 9/11 is propaganda loosely based on fact?
5) All politicians flip-flop often?
6) A bad decision is a bad decision. Showing conviction by sticking with a bad decision is not to be applauded.

Also, as for character assassinations, I suggest that both republicans and democrats do it, but that the GOP is simply better at it.

Sorry but, if you are going to post posts like that you can't post here. This board is NOT about rational and civilized political discourse where people on both sides of the issue attempt to find common ground. It is about blind partisanship, long copy and pastes of blogs that say nothing but take 40 paragraphs to do it, photoshopped pictures that make the other side's candidate look like a freak, relentless requests for citations to prove the obvious, the hurling of insults, and talkin' 'bout breast implants. Got it? Now scram.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I don't remember these, but am not surprised by them.*

All are stupid comments, and I condemn them. I realize that this doesn't satisfy your criticism, and can only suggest that you bring these scurrilous accusations up at the time that they arise. (Come to think of it, Penske might, but when he couples it with a picture of a shirtless Teddy climbing onto a boat, it kinda diffuses his ostensible point).

* Except Mfumi. He should know that by uttering the name, he automatically loses.

Here's the difference I see with the Swiftees. They have made a lot of allegations, and there appears to be at least a modicum of support for many of them. There are 254 of them who served "with" Kerry in VN. Now they didn't serve on his boat of six, but many served on surrounding boats, or were his commanding officers, or treated his wounds, so I think we can safely assume that they at least knew him there. There are 60 or so that have signed affadavits backing the allegations in the book.

I have no idea whether what they say is true. It looks like they've got him, at least technically, on Cambodia. For the others, it looks like a he said/he said, and the truth probably lies somewhere in between (if not more to the Kerry side).

So given all this, I find it problematic to dismiss their allegations out of hand. Many if not most of these may prove to be untrue or unprovable, but I'd like to see someone do the research to find out. There has been some decent blog work done, but bloggers don't have the resources of the NYT, Post, etc. Instead what we have is a reverse smear campaign to discredit them, much like you see in many criminal cases (e.g., Kobe) where the facts don't look good for the one accused.