Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Well, damn, a bunch of right-wing bloggers have proved that combat doesn't cause moral decay. They ought to win the Nobel Prize for this. Once they finish kicking the shit out of Beauchamp, they can turn to Shakespeare, Ernst Junger, Stephen Crane, Ernest Hemingway, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, and all the others.

No, a bunch of right-wing bloggers (which include many milbloggers) proved that the left wing media, yet again, will stop at nothing - nothing - to push their anti-military and anti-American agenda.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
No, a bunch of right-wing bloggers (which include many milbloggers) proved that the left wing media, yet again, will stop at nothing - nothing - to push their anti-military and anti-American agenda.

So clever are they that they figured out that TNR, notwithstanding years of support for the war and Sen. Lieberman, is actually a hotbed of anti-military and anti-American leftists. I, for one, am glad that someone has finally seen through the long-running charade that is Marty Peretz's career.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Well, damn, a bunch of right-wing bloggers have proved that combat doesn't cause moral decay. They ought to win the Nobel Prize for this. Once they finish kicking the shit out of Beauchamp, they can turn to Shakespeare, Ernst Junger, Stephen Crane, Ernest Hemingway, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, and all the others.

Try Ernie Pyle. If you point is "wars fucks up young men who fight them" Mr. Pyle proved that conclusively in the 40s. still, back then we realized we had to be at war you know, because people were trying to kill us and all.

Maybe if the DNC can advance the CAIR agenda more sucessfully, we'll see that we don't need to fear the Jihadis?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Try Ernie Pyle. If you point is "wars fucks up young men who fight them" Mr. Pyle proved that conclusively in the 40s. still, back then we realized we had to be at war you know, because people were trying to kill us and all.

Maybe if the DNC can advance the CAIR agenda more sucessfully, we'll see that we don't need to fear the Jihadis?

Hank, thank you for being the rare right-wing crackpot who doesn't feel a need to tear down Beauchamp for voicing what Ernie Pyle proved conclusively sixty years ago. A breath of fresh air is what you are.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Well, damn, a bunch of right-wing bloggers have proved that combat doesn't cause moral decay. They ought to win the Nobel Prize for this. Once they finish kicking the shit out of Beauchamp, they can turn to Shakespeare, Ernst Junger, Stephen Crane, Ernest Hemingway, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, and all the others.

Oh stop. The bloggers weren't saying combat doesn't cause moral decay. They were saying if you hadn't even been in combat yet, how could you blame a bad act on being in combat. It's really straightforward, dear.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Oh stop. The bloggers weren't saying combat doesn't cause moral decay. They were saying if you hadn't even been in combat yet, how could you blame a bad act on being in combat. It's really straightforward, dear.

I will pay $3 for you to watch the first half of Full Metal Jacket. If you want to watch the rest, it'll be no additional cost.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Try Ernie Pyle. If you point is "wars fucks up young men who fight them" Mr. Pyle proved that conclusively in the 40s. still, back then we realized we had to be at war you know, because people were trying to kill us and all.

Maybe if the DNC can advance the CAIR agenda more sucessfully, we'll see that we don't need to fear the Jihadis?

Probably before Pyle. Heck, Homer mentioned how the Greeks dragged the body of Ajax around Troy after they killed him.

What is your point? That the Diarist was an asshole before he got to Iraq? Were the blogs that Diane and Slave cite, all concerned with truth and accuracy over the statements of an anonymous grunt in a pro-war magazine, also troubled by the lies told by McCain about being able to stroll in the main market of Baghdad? Or about what happened to the market the days after the photo op?

War warps people -- good wars and bad wars. That's a pretty good reason, IMO, for avoiding unnecessary wars. I had a history professor at the square state land grant college I attended tell our 20th Century World History class about his experiences as a tank commander in WWII, and how clean-cut corn fed 19 year olds from Nebraska under his command would shoot their flamethrowers at Waffen SS troops who attempted to surrender in France. And my father's photo album from his Navy days has pictures of Marines on Iwo Jima after the island fell posing with comically-arranged dead Japanese soldiers (it also has a postcard received from some chick who is Not Mom with a joke about Kipling, but that's a different story). I happen to think that this is a sacrifice that was worth it in WWII and Korea (easy for me to say), and in Afghanistan, too. I don't think that it is worth it in Iraq, although now that we're there, we can't simply leave the place willy-nilly. But that, like "I'm sorry, dear boy. I've never Kippled." is a different story.

Bottom line -- this guy (unlike any of the apologists from the Weekly Standard) is a real 11 Bravo who appears to have been telling the truth (have any of the LGF types refuted the playing with the skulls of kids or killing dogs stories?) about what he has seen. Does it have anything to do with whether being in Iraq is a good or bad thing? Maybe not, but it illustrates a cost of war that we don't always think about -- what happens to our soldiers when they are doing their jobs.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I will pay $3 for you to watch the first half of Full Metal Jacket. If you want to watch the rest, it'll be no additional cost.

Saw it already, many times. I don't remember the part where it showed that being in combat causes moral decay even when you haven't been in combat yet. If the example in the TNR article was about boot/training camp (or Kubrick movies) causing moral decay, great. It wasn't.

Do I still get the $3?

Give it to me now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
If the example in the TNR article was about boot/training camp (or Kubrick movies) causing moral decay, great.

You think boot camp has nothing at all to do with combat. The two halves of that movie didn't really have anything to do with each other. Got it. You can have the $3, but only if you use it to watch the movie again.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You think boot camp has nothing at all to do with combat. The two halves of that movie didn't really have anything to do with each other. Got it. You can have the $3, but only if you use it to watch the movie again.

I expect that if you tell me how combat in Iraq is making people do bad things that you actually have been in combat or at least in Iraq. Otherwise, write an article about how mean people get after boot camp.

BTW-I asked my neighbor, a Vietnam vet what he thought about boot camp grads suffering enough "hardening" effect from camp that it was tantamount to actually being in combat (the writer explained the incident as occurring after being in Iraq). He just laughed in an eerie way. I think that means he disagrees with you. You don't want to pull your little $3 offer with him, for sure. Something tells me he doesn't find Kubrick a persuasive source on this issue. I'm just saying.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
I expect that if you tell me how combat in Iraq is making people do bad things that you actually have been in combat or at least in Iraq. Otherwise, write an article about how mean people get after boot camp.

Beauchamp actually has been in combat in Iraq, unlike most of the right-wing nutjobs who are all over his case. The one Iraq veteran who I've seen quoted as criticizing him is Marine Reservist Matt Sanchez, the former gay porn star who gets photographed with Ann Coulter.

BTW-I asked my neighbor, a Vietnam vet what he thought about boot camp grads suffering enough "hardening" effect from camp that it was tantamount to actually being in combat (the writer explained the incident as occurring after being in Iraq). He just laughed in an eerie way. I think that means he disagrees with you. You don't want to pull your little $3 offer with him, for sure. Something tells me he doesn't find Kubrick a persuasive source on this issue. I'm just saying.

No one in their right mind would say that boot camp is "tantamount" to being in combat. So I'm with your neighbor.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Beauchamp actually has been in combat in Iraq, unlike most of the right-wing nutjobs who are all over his case. The one Iraq veteran who I've seen quoted as criticizing him is Marine Reservist Matt Sanchez, the former gay porn star who gets photographed with Ann Coulter.



No one in their right mind would say that boot camp is "tantamount" to being in combat. So I'm with your neighbor.

I don't understand the big deal with this whole thing. I haven't been parsing all that much, but at a glance, it appeared the article sort of suggested that people are assholes. Don't have to join the military and go to war to find that out. The assholes in the military, though, have different targets and ammo than civilian assholes. Had Michael Vick Bradley Fighting Vehicles, I'm sure he would have used them in a similar manner.

These guys joined the military, not the priesthood. I don't understand why everyone expects all of them to be saints.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I don't understand the big deal with this whole thing. I haven't been parsing all that much, but at a glance, it appeared the article sort of suggested that people are assholes. Don't have to join the military and go to war to find that out. The assholes in the military, though, have different targets and ammo than civilian assholes. Had Michael Vick Bradley Fighting Vehicles, I'm sure he would have used them in a similar manner.

These guys joined the military, not the priesthood. I don't understand why everyone expects all of them to be saints.

this was sort of my point too. I don't get what the argument is. or have we gotten to the point where we need to fight about everything? let's see if we can find something we all agree with:

Resolved- when Hank first equated GGG to Gilligan a fundamental truth was uncovered.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I don't understand the big deal with this whole thing. I haven't been parsing all that much, but at a glance, it appeared the article sort of suggested that people are assholes. Don't have to join the military and go to war to find that out. The assholes in the military, though, have different targets and ammo than civilian assholes. Had Michael Vick Bradley Fighting Vehicles, I'm sure he would have used them in a similar manner.

These guys joined the military, not the priesthood. I don't understand why everyone expects all of them to be saints.

True, but don't read too much into this. When Slave calls Beauchamp a "fucking lying scumbag," he's not actually pissed at Beauchamp for writing things that make soldiers look bad.

Instead, he's substantively concerned about readers who might review these anecdotes of war, no matter how banal, and fail to appreciate the importance of accurate time and place.

Gattigap

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Beauchamp actually has been in combat in Iraq, unlike most of the right-wing nutjobs who are all over his case.

Like all of the milbloggers that were, or are currently, over there?

Or even like Like Malkin, who although not in combat, actually went over there to report things accurately?

Pretending to be a ostrich doesn't suit you.