Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
On another post of yours, I don't know if Kerry has made the right move or not in fighting back against the SwiftVet allegations and trying to paint a picture linking it all to GWB. I do know that the word is that the controversy was hurting Kerry in swing states, and among some groups (such as veterans) where Kerry had been doing much better than Bush could afford him to do. So, the campaign felt that they had to fight back somehow to clearly refute what they could and tar the rest with the brush of partisan hackery. Remains to be seen if it will work.

Completely agree. As much as the folks here want to paint this as Kerry's Waterloo, it's August, fer chrissakes. There is a long way to go in this marathon.*

The thing that rang the most true for me on this was some talking head over the weekend saying that this was a test of the Dems' willingness to fight the good fight. Leaving the charges unanswered would give the implicit message that Kerry lacked the will to do what it takes to win, and thus could not be trusted to represent our nation in war and/or diplomacy, where winning is the only thing. "How you play is for college ball."

Kerry tried to ignore it for weeks, and it didn't help. The net effect is not helpful, but arguably better than remaining silent (if this makes Bush look bad too).

If I can do this without "flipflopping," at least in the way that term is currently being used, I actually fall more on Hello's side of this point. There's got to be something between silence and whining. I support Kerry's fighting back, but man I wish he could have found another way to do it than complaining to the fucking FEC. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say he's "acting guilty," but I would prefer that he didn't respond like the nerdy kid on the playground who got his glasses knocked off in dodgeball. At least, that's how I acted when that happened.

There has to be a way to laugh this stuff off while staying credible on defense, and perhaps even going on the attack. Unsurprisingly, I just think that Kerry lacks the likability gene or something to pull this off, in contrast to his esteemed opponent. My favorite example in this regard was the thing I heard about Obama's response to Keyes' demand for the same number of debates that Ryan would have gotten: "That was a special for in-state candidates only." It's funny, nonresponsive to the thrust of the question, and points the listener to a weakness of the person attacking him. Possibly apocryphal, since I haven't read it anywhere, but still.


* Of course, I also found myself saying last night that the Red Sox were "peaking at the right time", so I may not be credible on this subject. FWIW, I am currently less intoxicated than I was then. I think.

[sgtclub]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L3UO01.html

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush on Monday denounced campaign commercials aired by outside groups, including an ad that accuses John Kerry of lying about his combat record in Vietnam.

"That ad and every other ad" run by such groups have no place in the campaign, Bush said when asked about the commercial sponsored by Swift Boat Veterans For Truth that has roiled the race for the White House.

Asked directly whether his Democratic rival for the presidency had lied, Bush said, "I think Senator Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record."

[baltassoc]

]Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
....
The thing that rang the most true for me on this was some talking head over the weekend saying that this was a test of the Dems' willingness to fight the good fight. Leaving the charges unanswered would give the implicit message that Kerry lacked the will to do what it takes to win, and thus could not be trusted to represent our nation in war and/or diplomacy, where winning is the only thing. "How you play is for college ball."

Originally posted by sgtclub
"President Bush on Monday denounced campaign commercials aired by outside groups, including an ad that accuses John Kerry of lying about his combat record in Vietnam."

Bush is a pussy who lacks the resolve to lead us in war and/or diplomacy.

More seriously, I think this was a tactical error on Bush's part, but nonetheless the right thing to do. I'm still not going to vote for him, but my opinion of him has just gone up.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Bush is a pussy who lacks the resolve to lead us in war and/or diplomacy.

More seriously, I think this was a tactical error on Bush's part, but nonetheless the right thing to do. I'm still not going to vote for him, but my opinion of him has just gone up.

the whole point starts from the Dem's dogging Bush's record and comparing Kerry's record favorably. That has been negated. going into this if Kerry had said I won't mention 68-73 if you don't Bush would have signed on.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the whole point starts from the Dem's dogging Bush's record and comparing Kerry's record favorably. That has been negated.

Ummmm. Okay. So I sould disregard President Bush telling me to disregard the SwiftVets?

Or are you thinking that people won't disregard the SwiftVets, because they don't believe anything Bush says, because Bush Lies?

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Bush is a pussy who lacks the resolve to lead us in war and/or diplomacy.

More seriously, I think this was a tactical error on Bush's part, but nonetheless the right thing to do. I'm still not going to vote for him, but my opinion of him has just gone up.

I fail to see how Bush's statement changes the dynamic of this issue. I doubt folks who have taken a dim view of Kerry based on the Swiftvets ads are going to change their mind based on Bush's admonition that Kerry served honorably.

I think this statement was the right thing to say, but I don't discount the political strategery side of things here. He boosts his profile as a statesman, but the ads will keep running.

And before anyone on the right gets all up in my face on that, let me just say that winning this election is serious business and I can admire someone for their political acumen while wishing their ignominious defeat. So don't go reading a partisan sneer into my words. This is a big sparring match and I think GOP side has landed a number of nice combos on this issue, including this well-timed statement.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Ummmm. Okay. So I sould disregard President Bush telling me to disregard the SwiftVets?

if you want. personally, I hope the ads keep bothering you.

Or are you thinking that people won't disregard the SwiftVets, because they don't believe anything Bush says, because Bush Lies?

30% of the country will feel this way. To the rest, Kerry overclaimed and fucked up here. It might not be fatal, but it hurt him. Like on Fashion, when Atticus claimed to have invented the TV plot summary as a response, and I had club come in and call him on it. now people are calling bullshit that Atticus claims he invented string theory posts, which i think he did do. C-R-E-D-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
I fail to see how Bush's statement changes the dynamic of this issue. I doubt folks who have taken a dim view of Kerry based on the Swiftvets ads are going to change their mind based on Bush's admonition that Kerry served honorably.

Hmmm. Asked and answered.

This is a big sparring match and I think GOP side has landed a number of nice combos on this issue, including this well-timed statement.

I'm starting to see the bigger picture in Bush's statement. ""That ad and every other ad" run by such groups have no place in the campaign, Bush said when asked about the commercial sponsored by Swift Boat Veterans."

So Kerry will now be called upon to condemn every moveon.org ad from now on. Clever. Very clever. Kerry and we Dems walked right into the trap. Perhaps Mr. Bush and his advisors do have what it takes to engage in international diplomacy/skullduggery....

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
if you want. personally, I hope the ads keep bothering you.

The only thing that bothered me about the ads were the internal inconsistancies. I still want to know why the guy "yards away" from a guy in the water, didn't pull him out, but instead made the guy wait for Kerry's boat to come back, especially since they weren't under any enemy fire, no sir, no enemy fire at all.

As I said, I respect Bush more for standing up to the pea-heads putatively on his side. But I'm not entirely positive that the net effect is a positive one for his campaign. Smearing has its place; just look what it did for Bush against McCain in 2000.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
The only thing that bothered me about the ads were the internal inconsistancies. I still want to know why the guy "yards away" from a guy in the water, didn't pull him out, but instead made the guy wait for Kerry's boat to come back, especially since they weren't under any enemy fire, no sir, no enemy fire at all.

Maybe Cambodia is "bizarro world?"

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Maybe Cambodia is "bizarro world?"

We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!

I was going to give Hank the non sequitur of the day (NSOTD)award, but you just swooped in and snatched from him.

[Say_hello_for_me]

and another R in my office generally agrees with me. If Kerry really has metal in his ass, he should point to it on TV and offer to let any doubters come and inspect it up close. With a big sloppy grin of course.

When somebody in his campaign finally figures this stuff out, remember where you heard it first.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
and another R in my office generally agrees with me. If Kerry really has metal in his ass, he should point to it on TV and offer to let any doubters come and inspect it up close. With a big sloppy grin of course.

When somebody in his campaign finally figures this stuff out, remember where you heard it first.

I agree with this.

(I also anticipate a Penske response suggesting that Edwards do the pointing, probably coupled with some photoshopped moment. Penske, while I'm sure that's got flair, I think that hello's initial suggestion is the way to go.)

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm starting to see the bigger picture in Bush's statement. ""That ad and every other ad" run by such groups have no place in the campaign, Bush said when asked about the commercial sponsored by Swift Boat Veterans."

So Kerry will now be called upon to condemn every moveon.org ad from now on. Clever. Very clever. Kerry and we Dems walked right into the trap. Perhaps Mr. Bush and his advisors do have what it takes to engage in international diplomacy/skullduggery....

Good morning.

This is no secret, if you are just realizing this, than you probably can get hired by the Kerry campaign.