Politics: J'accuse!

[SlaveNoMore]

Hank Chinaski
I asked a Canadian client about this today. He said most US ketsup comes from his part of Ontario. In some emergency we might not be able to get enough. On the other hand with McDonald's eliminating supersize, probably demand/need will be dropping.

Does Senator Hein...er, Kerry, realize he and his wife are personally keeping the American tomato farmer down????

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Does Senator Hein...er, Kerry, realize he and his wife are personally keeping the American tomato farmer down????

Jealous of Kerry's ability to marry well?

Seriously, much as I hate to doubt the word of an anonymous internet poster's equally anonymous client, I find it hard to believe that the US imports a significant quantity of tomatoes for processing from Ontario. Given that tomatoes tend to need lots of sun and warmth to grow, and Ontario has those commodities for approximately 2 weeks of every year.

So, I did a little googling and found the website for the California Tomato Growers Association. http://www.ctga.org/ According to them, California grows 90% of the tomatoes processed in the US and half of those worldwide. Or something like that -- I may have forgotten the precise statistics, consumed as I was by the other fascinating tomato facts.

[SlaveNoMore]

Sidd Finch
So, I did a little googling and found the website for the California Tomato Growers Association. http://www.ctga.org/ According to them, California grows 90% of the tomatoes processed in the US and half of those worldwide. Or something like that -- I may have forgotten the precise statistics, consumed as I was by the other fascinating tomato facts.

Using another person's log-in is a violation of our TOS. Atticus, for shame.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Using another person's log-in is a violation of our TOS. Atticus, for shame.

I have an alibi. I was at Wal-Mart.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I have an alibi. I was at Wal-Mart.

Sweetie, the socks are not going to protect you. They will just put you lower down on the list. At best. But your avatar is kinda getting me all hot and bothered, so that pushes you up higher . . .

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Sweetie, the socks are not going to protect you. They will just put you lower down on the list. At best. But your avatar is kinda getting me all hot and bothered, so that pushes you up higher . . .

I feel like Al Bundy.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Seriously, much as I hate to doubt the word of an anonymous internet poster's equally anonymous client, I find it hard to believe that the US imports a significant quantity of tomatoes for processing from Ontario. Given that tomatoes tend to need lots of sun and warmth to grow, and Ontario has those commodities for approximately 2 weeks of every year.

So, I did a little googling and found the website for the California Tomato Growers Association. http://www.ctga.org/ According to them, California grows 90% of the tomatoes processed in the US and half of those worldwide. Or something like that -- I may have forgotten the precise statistics, consumed as I was by the other fascinating tomato facts.

When you see shit like this that is objectively nonsense, i hope you all realize how little credibility to give to him and his Ty sock on political questions. And why do people not reply to me, when replying about my posts? It is passive/agressive.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
When you see shit like this that is objectively nonsense, i hope you all realize how little credibility to give to him and his Ty sock on political questions. And why do people not reply to me, when replying about my posts? It is passive/agressive.

I'm sorry that I'm not nearly as smart as you, but can you explain why my reference to a Cal. org that states that Cal. grows 90% of the processed tomatos used in the US and 50% worldwide is "objectively nonsense"?


edited to add: the reference to two weeks of sun in Ontario is what they call "hyperbole," if that was your issue.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I'm sorry that I'm not nearly as smart as you, but can you explain why my reference to a Cal. org that states that Cal. grows 90% of the processed tomatos used in the US and 50% worldwide is "objectively nonsense"?

Don't make me pull this message board over. "California is the leading producer of all tomatoes in the United States, accounting for 95 percent of U.S. processing tomato output and 31 percent of the fresh crop." Lying sacks of shit at the USDA.

But Ontario ain't no slouch. Lying sacks of shit at the B.C. Ministry of Management Services, in PDF.

edited to add: the reference to two weeks of sun in Ontario is what they call "hyperbole," if that was your issue.

Toronto experienced 145 days of precipitation (greater than 0.2 "mm", whatever the fuck that means) leaving, presumably, 220 days (or 31.43 metric weeks) of sun. So I'm afraid he's got you there, Sidd. Lying sacks of shit at the Meteorological Service of Canada. Outside of Toronto, well, YkmMV.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Don't make me pull this message board over. "California is the leading producer of all tomatoes in the United States, accounting for 95 percent of U.S. processing tomato output and 31 percent of the fresh crop." Lying sacks of shit at the USDA.

But Ontario ain't no slouch. Lying sacks of shit at the B.C. Ministry of Management Services, in PDF.



Toronto experienced 145 days of precipitation (greater than 0.2 "mm", whatever the fuck that means) leaving, presumably, 220 days (or 31.43 metric weeks) of sun. So I'm afraid he's got you there, Sidd. Lying sacks of shit at the Meteorological Service of Canada. Outside of Toronto, well, YkmMV.

When I make a towel reference its hate speech, when Sidd goes off about Ontario being cold and not capable of growign fuck-all its hyperbole. Okay:

how bout this

http://www.fas.usda.gov/htp/circular...TomFeature.PDF

if they ain't selling tomatos why are you all bothering with an anti-dumping suit? And WTF with "Euro-Fresh" for an American tomato company?

And fuck atticus- there are no farms in Toronto. Can't you name another city in Ontario? i thought you were the "get along with other countries" guy. Kingsville, man Kingsville is where the Tomatos are centered.

plus I was talking about Ketsup, not tomatos generically. Ketsup/tomatos have as much connection as this boards earlier rambling about attorney-client priv./executive priv.

[Hank Chinaski]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...slim_lawsuit_1

Complaint Filed Over Head Scarf Expulsion

By RICHARD GREEN, Associated Press Writer

OKLAHOMA CITY - The Justice Department (news - web sites) filed a complaint Tuesday against the Muskogee Public School District, saying officials were wrong to suspend an 11-year-old Muslim girl for refusing to remove her head scarf.

"No student should be forced to choose between following her faith and enjoying the benefits of a public education," Assistant Attorney General R. Alexander Acosta said. "Religious discrimination has no place in American schools."


The complaint seeks to force the school to change its dress code policy to "ensure there is no discrimination on the basis of religion."

and this is particularly impressive

Attorney General John Ashcroft has urged Muslims and Arab-Americans to report instances of discrimination and hate crimes and pledged they will be fully investigated.

I understand once a complainent passes initial loyalty testing, and an interview process about potential unsavory ties, DOJ is quick to act on any complaints.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I think free trade is usually a net good. I'm less certain that our current agreements are a net good.
And more.

Agree with all of that. My confusion stems, I guess, from the demonization that resulted from the last mention of outsourcing being a good thing. There was little, if any, concurrence with the idea that it creates moneyflow, as well as markets - just raging that it took away good ole amurikan jobz. This seemed to have been roundly supported by people who ought to know better, and probably do.

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch

I think free trade is usually a net good. I'm less certain that our current agreements are a net good. So I don't support the protectionist rationale that saving high-cost American jobs by restraining imports is good for the economy.

Free trade with poor countries that have few natrual resources is often a stupid deal for developed countries. The only reason you've two minds about it is that you know it helps poor people in the third world by bidding up wages in their countries at the expense of workers in developed countries. Mass immigration into the US in the 1890s and early 1900s bid down wages in the US. US wages declined 1-1.5% for every 1% increase in immigration, and wages dropped even more in industries dominated by immigrants. In 1870, US wages were 136% higher in the US than in Europe, but by 1913, due to massive immigration from Europe to the US, the gap was cut in half. Finally, US workers lashed out by shutting down immigration in 1921.

You're looking at free trade the wrong way. Owners of capital and their libertarian cheerleaders like free trade for the same reason liberals like the judiciarry: it lets them do things they don't have the votes to do. Owners of capital and the libertarians see nothing wrong with repealing the 13th amendment, but that's no feasible, so the answer is to import goods and services produced by chinese people working as indentured servants or slaves. Owners of capital and libertarians don't like environmental protections, so the answer is to import goods and services produced by Chinese people with administrators that lack the power to shut down factors that pollute the environment, can only levy insignificant fines, and lack any incentive to shut down industry. Owners of capital and libertarians don't like the distributional results of giving US workers a wage premium by virtue of their residing in the US, the answer is to import as much as possible in any industry where US workers receive such a premium. Owners of capital and libertarians don't like a corporate income tax, so the answer is to import goods and services from countries that don't have one.

You see, ultimately, the goal of free trade is to force the US to adopt various measures that libertarians and owners of capital would like but lack the votes to get. Because, you see, if the US allows free trade, free immigration, and free movement of capital, the US is forced to compete with other countries for owners of capital to invest in the US. It pushes the US to reduce regulations, wages, taxes, and everything else libertarians and owners of capital don't like.

What we need are restrictions on immigration, trade and the flow of capital. The US isn't simply a system to promote capitalism; it's a democratic republic that's supposed to benefit its citizens, very few of whom are extremely wealthy.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
[stuff]

Whoa. And Hank thinks I'm the glass-half-empty guy? At least I poo occasionally. Which is nice.

[SlaveNoMore]

Atticus Grinch
Whoa. And Hank thinks I'm the glass-half-empty guy? At least I poo occasionally. Which is nice.

No. Josh...er...Ty is the glass half-empty guy. But at least he made a dent.

You are the glass still-full guy looking constantly at his watch before claiming a family emergency and running out on the tab.