Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
But not over a certain amount?

Right. If you want to cheat death by leaving your money to others, fine, but you really aren't cheating death any more with every additional $1 million.

That's my working hypothesis.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Right. If you want to cheat death by leaving your money to others, fine, but you really aren't cheating death any more with every additional $1 million.

That's my working hypothesis.

Sure, but your hypothesis fails to account for the fact that $10m is the new $1m.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Because in general, estates of that size contain little more than the family home. A mere $100k exemption would require a forced sale of the family home in order to pay the estate taxes, and forced sales driven by tax needs often result in fire sale prices.

Are you expecting to live with mom until she kicks it?

How many kids actually move into their parents home after they die? Sure, it happens sometimes. But I'd guess that 99% of people sell their parents' homes after death (and the step-up in basis), and take the cash.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Sure, but your hypothesis fails to account for the fact that $10m is the new $1m.

Not in my family it ain't.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Depends how many people that $1 million is split among. You have four kids and ten grandkids, and it isn't so much.

2.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Aren't you reading the Statute of Wills and stuff? I actually admired you there for a minute or two.

Also, if someone could remind me why we are not allowed to make changes to English common law on property, that would be very helpful.

Of course we are allowed to make changes to the common law. That wasn't what I was saying. I was simply suggesting to Club that the notion of property rights and the right to bequeath one's property after death are in fact historically intertwined and have been from the beginning.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Given the narrow focus of the estate tax I don't think it has an impact one way or the other. The efficiency gain is simply from eliminating the lawyers who get paid to help their clients avoid/minimize their tax liability.

Hey, do I piss in your chili pot? Estate planning is one of my big growth targets for my practice. If they repeal it permanently, I may have to find more legitimate work.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Hey, do I piss in your chili pot? Estate planning is one of my big growth targets for my practice. If they repeal it permanently, I may have to find more legitimate work.

Heh. My parents left for Mexico for the weekend this morning. They called me from the airport to ask if I remembered where they put the codicil to their will changing the administrator from my now ex-aunt to me.

I told them not to die in the next 5 days, because I had no idea what they were talking about.

You may get a call...

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are you expecting to live with mom until she kicks it?

How many kids actually move into their parents home after they die? Sure, it happens sometimes. But I'd guess that 99% of people sell their parents' homes after death (and the step-up in basis), and take the cash.

Spoken like a true Republican -- who recognizes how important it is to keep the family farm from being sold (all 3 of them that may be affected by an estate tax with a reasonable exemption), but can't recognize the reality of people who can't afford to buy a home before their parents die.

Not everyone gets to go to college and law school and start a new career. People who are not in your economic class like to leave their family homes behind to family members, and in some instances descendants depend on that.

More importantly, but not suprisingly, you are missing, or ignoring, the point. The fed gov't has decided that promoting fire sales of homes is bad. Fire sales are what happen when people need to sell a major asset to pay estate taxes -- again, that's something Repubs recognize when it applies to families with multimillion dollar business interests, but apparently not when it comes to middle class families whose only significant assets are their homes.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Spoken like a true Republican -- who recognizes how important it is to keep the family farm from being sold (all 3 of them that may be affected by an estate tax with a reasonable exemption), but can't recognize the reality of people who can't afford to buy a home before their parents die.

Not everyone gets to go to college and law school and start a new career. People who are not in your economic class like to leave their family homes behind to family members, and in some instances descendants depend on that.

More importantly, but not suprisingly, you are missing, or ignoring, the point. The fed gov't has decided that promoting fire sales of homes is bad. Fire sales are what happen when people need to sell a major asset to pay estate taxes -- again, that's something Repubs recognize when it applies to families with multimillion dollar business interests, but apparently not when it comes to middle class families whose only significant assets are their homes.

How many hours did Ty bill last year? Doesn't the firm have a minimum?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch


More importantly, but not suprisingly, you are missing, or ignoring, the point. The fed gov't has decided that promoting fire sales of homes is bad. Fire sales are what happen when people need to sell a major asset to pay estate taxes -- again, that's something Repubs recognize when it applies to families with multimillion dollar business interests, but apparently not when it comes to middle class families whose only significant assets are their homes.

I'm sure that just as you readily marshal statistics about the 50 farmers for whom estate tax reform might matter, you'll be able to demonstrate that there are, in fact, many thousands of people who die each year, leaving their house to their children, and that their children move into them.

The fact that a middle-class person has most of his/her assets in a house doesn't mean that it won't be liquidated anyway upon death. If it's being liquidated, whether to pay taxes or not, it becomes irrelevant that they might have to pay estate tax.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
At the risk of pulling a Hank, this reminds of that line in a Few Good Men, where Kiefer Sutherland says something to the effect of "I love you Navy boys. Whenever us marines need to go somewhere, you give us a ride." That's how I feel about tax lawyers.

I'm pretty sure Hank knows better than to make fun of that of which he is ignorant, merely because he doesn't understand it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I'm pretty sure Hank knows better than to make fun of that of which he is ignorant, merely because he doesn't understand it.

My income tax course I took pass/fail. Then the guy hands out a syllabus where he tells us when he'll call on each of us. That was a bad combo- I only studied for 2 nights. I do know that if we give a benefit to highly comped employees we have to also give it to lower comped or its income- beyond that I know nothing more.

That is a terrible way to teach a law class. My knowledge of corporations is similarly crippled for the same reason.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski

That is a terrible way to teach a law class. My knowledge of corporations is similarly crippled for the same reason.

Sure. Blame the teacher. The reason for your disability is because you didn't study. Take ownership of the problem.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
See, I was spotting you teh $1m exemption. If the tax is an efficient one, and you make a cogent argument that it is (indeed, it is unavoidable and therefore does not create inefficiency, other than the timing of spending). So, I'd say no exemption, 50% all around. Drop the income tax accordingly.

That proposal would increase inefficiency and create a capital drain. At present, a relatively small number of taxpayers, all extremely wealthy and willing to push lines farther than many, engage in parking of assets offshore in order to minimize the estate tax. If we were to eliminate the exemption and take away the bracketing, then far more taxpayers would engage in parking. Many of the ones who would engage in such behavior would be prey to unscrupulous promoters who would take advantage of many people who can't really afford to play those kinds of games.