Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
While I absolutely refuse to criticize the guy's military service, I think the record should be absolutely clear and unobfuscated as to what he brags about. If the metal he carries around in his body is from a grenade that he himself threw in the immediate absence of any enemy soldiers (see yesterday's WaPo link), than he should not be linking it to his medals or his Purple Hearts.

Furthermore, if the second or third purple heart was for nothing more than bumping his arm, than I think hundreds of thousands of other veterans deserve medals they didn't receive.

Still, this story sucks and its hurting America (the Big big story).

(A) You're probably right, but he still took "shrapnel" in the ass on a combat mission in the service of his country.


(B) Depends on the severity of the bump. I think you're right about the hundreds of thousands of veterans, and on ther other hand I think there are probably tens to hundreds of thousands of PH medals awarded for very, very minor wounds (especially in VN where they were the ticket home -- as opposed to WWII).

(C) There is no doubt about that, and no doubt that the demands of partisan poltics have long outpaced (for most people) any concept of decency or the greater good. Or, they think that the end (them in office "doing good') justifies almost any means. I don't agree with SD on much, but I agree that candidates who don't pull this crap lose.

S_A_M

[Replaced_Texan]

A few weeks ago, SHP posted a link to a http://cbftw.blogspot.com/, which is a war blog of a soldier stationed in Mosel. He started the blog earlier this summer, and said at some point that it was sort of an effort to fight off boredom. I think he also liked having it to remind him of what was going on. Frankly, his account of an attack in early August was terrifying to read, and I think he and all of his readers were greatly relieved that he survived intact.

Anyhow, NPR has a report today that war blogs in general, and cbftw's in particular, are now under scrutiny. A few days ago, cbftw posted the text of the first amendment, so I wasn't surprised to see that he's having to pass through the censors before he can post. I was glad, though, that these war blogs are getting media attention. I was afraid the media was going to catch on that their embedded reporters are second rate for first hand accounts if there are bloggers out there.

[Atticus Grinch]

VP extends olive branch to libertarian/federalist wing of GOP; middle finger to GOP base.

I think he's banking on the fact that 70% of the people voting for the BC ticket don't give two figs about federalism --- they're federalist only in the sense that until the GOP won majorities in the House and Senate in the recent past, it was easier to obtain social morality legislation in their state legislatures than from the feds. So they wanted the 10th Amendment applied against Dem feds, but aren't so much worried about it when those feds are GOP.

Cheney can play to the 30%, while Bush whips the 70% into religious fervor. Gotta give them credit for ingenuity.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Club --

I think it is fairly well established that the first PH came from a wound in the ass Kerry received from his own grenade, after Kerry used it to destroy VC rice stores during a combat mission . (he and a buddy were headed away from the explosion -- not fast enough). So yes, that is self-inflicted.

It was my understanding that the Navy deemed that this wound qualified because of the nature of the mission, even though they weren't taking fire. Do you have some evidence that Kerry lied to get the decoration?

S_A_M

If I understand it correctly, the new allegation is that he wasn't under fire when he got hit. As I believe that is required for the PH, there is suspicion that he did, and this was contradicted in his diaries.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
If I understand it correctly, the new allegation is that he wasn't under fire when he got hit. As I believe that is required for the PH, there is suspicion that he did, and this was contradicted in his diaries.

Um, no, you must have misunderstood. We were talking about all those WMDs Bush said we'd find in Iraq, and about how he said there were close links between SH and OBL, and about how he said that the vast majority of the tax cuts would go to middle-class Americans, and . . .

Either Bush lied about all of these things or he has chosen to keep himself horribly misinformed. Perhaps he needs someone new to read the newspapers to him.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Um, no, you must have misunderstood. We were talking about all those WMDs Bush said we'd find in Iraq, and about how he said there were close links between SH and OBL, and about how he said that the vast majority of the tax cuts would go to middle-class Americans, and . . .

Either Bush lied about all of these things or he has chosen to keep himself horribly misinformed. Perhaps he needs someone new to read the newspapers to him.

My posting theme today is The Genius of W. Consider that his earliest actions as president --- his cabinet appointments --- came under early fire when Senate Dems complained they were out of the mainstream of American policy. W's response was the same for each: "You must not see the same {Insert Name Here} that I've come to know for the past 15 years. {Insert Name Here} has a tremendous heart. {Insert Name Here} cares about our values. I'm confident {Insert Name Here} will do good work for the American people."

W couldn't have known he'd soon be explaining why we went to war on factual grounds later proved wrong. But the tone W set has worked on dumb people and smart people alike to justify it ex post facto: People should be judged by their intentions. Their recent actions are not good evidence of their intentions. What makes a person a person is more timeless and ineffable, and can be irrefutably established by one person vouching for another. There are good people, and bad people. I won the Electoral College, so I get to choose who the good people are.

W's policy failures mean nothing, even to smart members of the GOP, because in our post-Clinton world they think character is what qualifies one to be president. It has truly become a popularity contest --- except we don't judge people based on who they are, but on whom others think they aspire to be.

Genius.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
we don't judge people based on who they are, but on whom others think they aspire to be.

For not the last time, I'm telling you, we elect people based on who reminds girls more of the guy their collective mothers told them not to date. Garner a fun-loving past that generates lots of rumors, but keep away from cameras in the hippy phase. And by all means, work out... practice riding horses and motorcycles, and wear leather jackets and jeans. Its only a matter of time til we elect a rock star president.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I agree with a lot of what you posted. I really and truly admire Kerry (and all others) that volunteered to go to war. That is balls and he deserves our respect for that.

I do not see Swiftvets gate as denigrading that service. Medals or not, the dude was injured in service to the country. Period, but not end of story.

Just like the fact that he volunteered and served (as far as I can tell) admirably shows us attributes of his character, so does his actions (a) in allegedly working the system and fluffing the record to get the medals (if true), and (b) in the hippy movement when he got back.

Since Ty has been banned, I will attempt to raise his blog-quoting torch. Apologies in advance for the cut-and-paste job. I'm still new at this.


"Correspondents’ Corner:

Name: David S. Bernstein
Hometown: Boston, Mass.
Eric:
So, my extended family is all gathered around for Thanksgiving dinner, and my sister's boyfriend starts telling these horrendous lies about our uncle Pete -- about how his war medals are all based on lies, and how Pete's not really a hero, etc. Everything he's saying is obviously made up, but he won't shut up about it.

So I turn to my sister and say: "Will you please tell your boyfriend to shut up with that crap about Uncle Pete?"

And she says: "No, but I do object in principle to ALL non-blood-relatives being allowed to speak at the dinner table. I hope you'll join me in calling for all of these outsiders to be silenced."

End of parable.

What did we learned last week? George W. Bush refuses to make an ethical distinction between honest claims and dishonest claims.

Tune in this week as we learn another lesson from the Swifties: It's morally better to hush up wrongdoing than to try to end it. Did someone say Abu Graib?"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I agree with a lot of what you posted. I really and truly admire Kerry (and all others) that volunteered to go to war. That is balls and he deserves our respect for that.

I knew, and know, a bunch of absolute shitheels who volunteered to go fight that war.

It sounds all noble and respectful and whatnot for everyone to solemnly nod and say, yep, tells us a lot about their morality and strength of character.

But I don't think it does. It usually tells you more about aspects of their character that aren't even on your radar, and about the circumstances in their lives at that time.

What Rummy said - "we know what we know - we know what we don't know - but we don't know what we don't know"

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Cheney can play to the 30%, while Bush whips the 70% into religious fervor. Gotta give them credit for ingenuity.

Geeze, AG, he gets no credit from you at all, does he? "Cheney blesses personal freedom; women, minorities hardest hit."

Any conception that a father with a gay daughter might truly believe what he said? Any credit for having said this long ago, while making it explicit that he follows Bush's lead 'cuz Bush is the President, but that his personal views differ? Any realization that this isn't a "fringes" election, but a "bases" election, and this seriously interferes with said bases?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
except we don't judge people based on who they are, but on whom others think they aspire to be.

Hank Chinaski is trying to be Cocteau, but he comes off like Clousseau

---Plated

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
The report also mentions substantiated claims that at least one male detainee was sodomized by one of his captors at Abu Ghraib, sources said.

Given that sodomy was involved, you at least got to agree the WH wasn't involved. WH is against sodomy, constitutional amendment and all.

[Hank Chinaski]

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

A blogger in Iraq passes on the speculation that part of the negotiation is a check to see if Sadr has robbed the shrine....

Sistani seems to have given instructions to his office in Najaf not to accept the keys to the holy shrine unless a neutral committee inspects the contents of the shrine and an inventory is made to ensure nothing is missing from the treasury of the shrine.

This treasury which is located inside a safe locked basement beneath the shrine contains historical artifacts, priceless manuscripts and a significant amount of gold and gems. These have been gifted and donated to the shrine by Shia from all over the world for centuries. No one has ever dared touch that treasury except the family that holds the keys to the shrine. Radhwan Al-Rufai'i was forced to give over the keys to one of Sadr's aides last April. Al-Rufai'i had taken over the responsibilities of the shrine after his cousin Haider Al-Kelidar who was murdered with Abdul Majid Al-Khoe'i on 10 April 2003 by Sadr's followers.

Sistani's office has been placing these obstacles on Sadr in response to rumours that a large part of the treasury has been stolen and possibly smuggled to Iran. If true, Sadr would be in a very bad position since he was practically responsible for the shrine's contents and would also expose him as the gangster he is.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore

What Rummy said - "we know what we know - we know what we don't know - but we don't know what we don't know"

Was he quoting Yogi Berra at the time?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Sistani calls for all Shias to march to Najaf. 60% of Iraq's population. This could decisively help end Shiite involvement in causing problems if the coalition plays its cards right.

[sgtclub]

The Kerry campaign needs a shake-up in the worst way.

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - Democrat John Kerry will dispatch two fellow Vietnam veterans to President Bush's secluded Texas ranch on Wednesday to press him to condemn television advertisements accusing Kerry of lying about his wartime service.

The move comes one day after it was disclosed that a top lawyer for Bush's re-election campaign has been providing legal advice to the group behind the ads, the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war.

Cleland and former Army Green Beret Jim Rassman, whose life was saved by Kerry during a Vietnam war firefight, will try to deliver a letter protesting the ads to Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said.