Still Hating America.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

So, to continue the debate Hank: How do we get the real polluting cars off the road?

Should we tax drivers of older cars?. Singapore has long had a more sensible system. In the U.S., where there are annual car excise taxes they typically are highest for new cars (based on value). In Singapore, the tax increases as the car gets older. How about that here? Especially in California?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So, to continue the debate Hank: How do we get the real polluting cars off the road?

Should we tax drivers of older cars?. Singapore has long had a more sensible system. In the U.S., where there are annual car excise taxes they typically are highest for new cars (based on value). In Singapore, the tax increases as the car gets older. How about that here? Especially in California?

your link is wrong---

the problem with taxing older cars more is that the people driving them are poorer, usually. Virginia (and I'm sure many states) with the annual inspections more or less make it harder to keep old cars on the road.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So, to continue the debate Hank: How do we get the real polluting cars off the road?

Should we tax drivers of older cars?. Singapore has long had a more sensible system. In the U.S., where there are annual car excise taxes they typically are highest for new cars (based on value). In Singapore, the tax increases as the car gets older. How about that here? Especially in California?

But that penalizes poor people who can only afford older cars (I don't agree with this, but that's the argument). I suspect that the poor in Singapore have never been able to afford any car and that the transit system makes that reasonable.

For it to work here, there needs to be some sort of trade-in program for older cars--giving the owners something more than the market value for their hulks. The number of 70s area POSs in California is astounding, but understandable with little weather to wear the cars down.

Higher taxes would work for "vintage" cars, rather than just old ones. The owner of a '68 GTO would pay the tax, but just be pissed about it.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
For it to work here, there needs to be some sort of trade-in program for older cars--giving the owners something more than the market value for their hulks. The number of 70s area POSs in California is astounding, but understandable with little weather to wear the cars down.

Which is what the linked article said:

By raising taxes on high-income motorists, the government could finance vouchers that would enable low-income motorists to scrap their older vehicles in favor of cleaner used cars of more recent vintage. The required taxes would be much smaller than the resulting savings from not having to adopt such costly standards for new vehicles. Both rich and poor motorists would win.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
But that penalizes poor people who can only afford older cars (I don't agree with this, but that's the argument). I suspect that the poor in Singapore have never been able to afford any car and that the transit system makes that reasonable.

For it to work here, there needs to be some sort of trade-in program for older cars--giving the owners something more than the market value for their hulks. The number of 70s area POSs in California is astounding, but understandable with little weather to wear the cars down.

Higher taxes would work for "vintage" cars, rather than just old ones. The owner of a '68 GTO would pay the tax, but just be pissed about it.

If California were serious about the problem it would impose a surtax on the sale of any new car above a certain value (say $40k) and/or below a certain fuel economy level. It would also impose an annual emissions surtax on any car older than whenever better emissions technology came in. Using that money, it could provide that bounty to anyone trading in those older cars. This would transfer money both from richer people buying expensive cars and from people who want to keep their "classics" to those who are driving beaters. Probably don't even need an income test for that, because I doubt there are too many rich people driving old beaters. The only problem is that "market value" is likely well less than the value to the person driving the car, given the replacement cost.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
If California were serious about the problem

I believe that California has a program which buys old beaters to get them off the road. Another market-based solution.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I believe that California has a program which buys old beaters to get them off the road. Another market-based solution.

Well, in the same way the DC madam's funding of her legal defense by selling her black book was a market solution.

That said, while higher taxes to reflect the costs imposed on society would be preferable, payments of blackmail to get rid of them is better than nothing.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Rudy Giuliani's firm has been doing lobbying work for Hugo Chavez. So you'd think he'd come out against assassination in this case.

At times like this, I wonder, "what would Jesus do?"

[Gattigap]

As it happens, the Congressional Research Service came out with a report in February detailing how many US Attorneys left their positions from 1986 or so to the present. For those who may be interested in the number of US Attorneys who resigned under pressure during the term of the Clinton Administration (as opposed to the clean slate made at the beginning of the administration), the answer is Two.

• * Larry Colleton, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Florida.
  Colleton, appointed by President Clinton, according to news reports,
  had been U.S. attorney for Florida's middle district for only five
  months on May 6 [1994] when he was videotaped grabbing
  Jacksonville television reporter Richard Rose by the throat. The
  newsman had been trying to question him about recent decisions in
  his office. He resigned in July 1994.
  
  * Kendall Coffey, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of
  Florida. Coffey, appointed by President Clinton, resigned on May
  12, 1996, according to news reports, amid accusations that he bit a
  topless dancer on the arm during a visit to an adult club after losing
  a big drug case.

Gattigap

[Adder]

Originally posted by Gattigap
As it happens, the Congressional Research Service came out with a report in February detailing how many US Attorneys left their positions from 1986 or so to the present. For those who may be interested in the number of US Attorneys who resigned under pressure during the term of the Clinton Administration (as opposed to the clean slate made at the beginning of the administration), the answer is Two.

• * Larry Colleton, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Florida.
  Colleton, appointed by President Clinton, according to news reports,
  had been U.S. attorney for Florida's middle district for only five
  months on May 6 [1994] when he was videotaped grabbing
  Jacksonville television reporter Richard Rose by the throat. The
  newsman had been trying to question him about recent decisions in
  his office. He resigned in July 1994.
  
  * Kendall Coffey, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of
  Florida. Coffey, appointed by President Clinton, resigned on May
  12, 1996, according to news reports, amid accusations that he bit a
  topless dancer on the arm during a visit to an adult club after losing
  a big drug case.

Gattigap

Damn libtard hypocrits!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Gattigap
As it happens, the Congressional Research Service came out with a report in February detailing how many US Attorneys left their positions from 1986 or so to the present. For those who may be interested in the number of US Attorneys who resigned under pressure during the term of the Clinton Administration (as opposed to the clean slate made at the beginning of the administration), the answer is Two.

• * Larry Colleton, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Florida.
  Colleton, appointed by President Clinton, according to news reports,
  had been U.S. attorney for Florida's middle district for only five
  months on May 6 [1994] when he was videotaped grabbing
  Jacksonville television reporter Richard Rose by the throat. The
  newsman had been trying to question him about recent decisions in
  his office. He resigned in July 1994.
  
  * Kendall Coffey, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of
  Florida. Coffey, appointed by President Clinton, resigned on May
  12, 1996, according to news reports, amid accusations that he bit a
  topless dancer on the arm during a visit to an adult club after losing
  a big drug case.

Gattigap

Both were in Florida. Coincidence?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
But they can sell even more cars can't they? And much of improving fuel economy comes from the suppliers to the OEMs and they have their own incentive to take business from their competitors, so Toyota is more a step removed from the incentive.

Is ford really making lots and lots of Escorts it can't sell? i thought it was just paying penalties.

They're making lots and lots of Focuses. And losing money on every one of them. Just to try and meet CAFE.

Of course, smarter people would build less Expeditions and try to figure out how to make a Focus that isn't a piece of shit and lose money to boot. But that isn't the American way.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

"No, I will NOT 'suck it'! And YOU'RE the bitch!"

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by taxwonk
They're making lots and lots of Focuses. And losing money on every one of them. Just to try and meet CAFE.

Of course, smarter people would build less Expeditions and try to figure out how to make a Focus that isn't a piece of shit and lose money to boot. But that isn't the American way.

Lots of those cars end up in rental fleets, and ultimately hit the market used. Not a money-maker for the Big Three.

S_A_M