Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore If I don't understand that people consider women to be actual humans, fully as worthwhile as men, than my not hiring one as my bank vice president is a mistake, not evil.

The understanding that women are humans fully as worthwhile as men is innate. It is and always has been morally wrong for men to use their superior physical strength to gain an advantage over women. Men innately know this was wrong, but it has always been an advantage they were unwilling to give up. So they justified it in various ways, the most notable is religion. This is one reason why these religions that teach that women are not equal are the cause of so much evil on this earth. Hopefully some day, we will recognize the evils of islam and other religions that perpetrate these crimes. I know I am always harping on islam and that other religions do the same somewhat, but it is a matter of degree. Yes, there are fringe christian groups that do it, too, but with islam, it is so widespread and so oppressive. It is a scourge on this earth that I hope one day will be eliminated as a belief system.

Originally posted by bilmore
When everyone around owns slaves, (and this one is a closer call, admittedly), and accepts it as natural, I think there's a strong argument for the mistake explanation.

Why is this a closer call than claiming god wants women to be shrouded from head to foot? How different is slavery from the way women in these islamic countries are forced to live? They are considered the property of their fathers or their husbands. It is innately evil. Yet simply because they call it a religious belief, others will respect it. That is wrong. Those of you who refuse to speak out against isalmic oppression of women should be ashamed of yourselves. I don't just mean the extreme oppression. I mean any oppression. Any and all oppression of women is wrong. Forcing women to be "modest" as they call it by shrouding themselves is wrong.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by bilmore
For undertaking a huge step towards world peace.

What war doesn't qualify for this description? Serious question.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That can't be right. If I'm a U.S. citizen resident in Italy, I pay Italian taxes on my income, but why would I pay U.S. taxes as well?

Because the US taxes its citizens on a worldwide basis. You would get a foreign tax credit for foreigen income taxes paid, subject to the FTC limitation. In addition, certain income earned outside the US isn't subject to US tax. However, there are circumstances under which some portion of your income earned overseas would still be subject to tax in the US.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The government taxes income from non-citizens in the country. I have no problem with that. I just see the justification for the taxation as relating to economic activity within the sovereign's jurisdiction, not a claim on the sovereign's part to reach into the wallet of its citizens wherever they may travel in the world. If I'm a U.S. citizen living in Milan and working in a factory there, I don't understand why the U.S. government should have a claim to take part of my wages. Italy, yes -- the U.S., no.

eta: I'm not hung up on the prospect of double taxation -- I just don't get the justification for the exercise of U.S. jurisdiction. What power should the government have to claim a share of economic activity in another country, simply because one of the participants is a U.S. citizen? I have the same problem with the idea that the U.S. government can send you to prison for deciding to smoke a Cuban cigar when you're in Brazil. Borders mean something, don't they?

There are two bases for imposition of a tax burden. One is residency. The other is citizenship. Most countries rely solely on residency; the US relies on both.

This is actually more theoretical than factual. In practice, wages earned overseas by a US citizin resident in the counrty where the wages are earned are not subject to US tax. Treaties, certain provisions of the Code, and foreign tax credits ensure this.

But, there still remains a framework for non-wage income from certain activities not subject to treaty to be taxed in the US, especially if they are not taxed elsewhere. It's the price you pay for citizenship.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
By rape exeption I mean that even if abortion is made illegal it would not be absolute. It would be permitted for rape, incest, and other similar horrific events.

Not under the proposed legislation and Constitutional Amendments being pursued by Republican legislators. Nor is there such an exception in the anti-abortion plank of the Republican platform.

[SlaveNoMore]

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
What war doesn't qualify for this description? Serious question.

Hitler's war.
Saddam's war with Iran.
In short, the wars of conquest, as opposed to the wars stopping evil.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
It is widely believed in scientific communities that the appearance of RNA in prebiotic earth was the watershed event that lead to the origin of life on earth. This is not incompatible with a belief in a higher being.

http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SUA05/origin.html
http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/S...gins_life.html
http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/NM/miller.html
http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/VikingC...le/Prebiot.htm
http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise...y/PBearth.html
http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise...gy/miller.html

I agree with all of the above. But of course it can't be proven, and I posted only to beat Hank to that point.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore

Take it to the Sports Board. Or the NY Board. Or some other board.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
They already won (1999), but as proof that the Nobel Committee is too internationalist and faggoty to award the Prize to 43, they awarded it to "Médecins Sans Frontières."

Come to think of it, I would add America's own:
Water for People non-profit arm of the American Water Works Association. Its one of the best groups I know. They take volunteer American water professionals and send them to build water systems to provide clean water or deal with waste water in places that need them. One of the brightest points in this light is that many of the volunteers are employees of local governments who feel a calling to use their skills to help provide clean water in places like Central and South America and Africa. They do it efficiently on very limited budgets, though the engineering community provides a decent amount of funding for just about any qualified person who wants to go. U.S.A., U.S.A., U.S.A.!

eta For anyone who has never heard this before, the unavailability of clean water is the single base cause that can be tied to the most deaths of children in the 3rd world.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by taxwonk
There are two bases for imposition of a tax burden. One is residency. The other is citizenship. Most countries rely solely on residency; the US relies on both.

This is actually more theoretical than factual. In practice, wages earned overseas by a US citizin resident in the counrty where the wages are earned are not subject to US tax. Treaties, certain provisions of the Code, and foreign tax credits ensure this.

But, there still remains a framework for non-wage income from certain activities not subject to treaty to be taxed in the US, especially if they are not taxed elsewhere. It's the price you pay for citizenship.

Since everyone tells me this is so, I believe you. I just don't get the principled basis for it, either as a function of the state's claim to the money, or as a function of the state's jurisdiction.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Take it to the Sports Board. Or the NY Board. Or some other board.

Cry me a fucking river and read your PMs

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
What the fuck does this mean? My reading stopped at the assigned readings from high School? to say "orwellian" when you mean "animal farm or 1984 like" simply means you are poorly read.

You are unable to understand my literary allusion, so you call me poorly read? Try not to be more of a jackass than usual, Hank.

[SlaveNoMore]

Atticus Grinch
They already won (1999), but as proof that the Nobel Committee is too internationalist and faggoty to award the Prize to 43, they awarded it to "Médecins Sans Frontières."

You still have yet to (1) question my list - you did after all, pose the question to me, and (2) post your lefty 5.

[Adder]

Originally posted by bilmore
Oh, I agree that this is THE argument, the one this all devolves to. Just like the slavery one - are blacks human? - determined the outcome of that controversy, this will determine how the abortion argument goes. (It became the accepted paradigm, after a bit, that, yes, blacks were human, and deserving of human value.) .

Haven't studied these things myself, but I have heard some people who have argue that this was the paradigm for a long before it became necessary to justify slavery too.

But I can't believe that a group of lawyers actually spent all day arguing over abortion. Is there really anything to be said? As Bilmore notes, its an easy question as long as we all agree on the basic premise. For course, we fundamentally do not. So what's worth debating?