General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[nononono]

Originally posted by SEC_Chick
Ok, apropos of the "Razormouth" discussion, I took my breastfeeding class at the hospital last Saturday. I didn't really learn anything, but the breastfeeding videos were all filmed in Norway and encouraged going topless as much as possible to avoid complication. Norwegian boobies were everywhere. Mr. Chick was wishing he hadn't wussed out on going with me.

So, Norwegian TITS aside, here's my concern. For those of you who went back to working full time and were BFing, was pumping really feasible? I am a little overwhelmed with the thought of having to pump 4 times a day and managing the whole process. Please tell me it's not impossible. My goal is to BF for one year.

I have been examining my breast pump options and am leaning towards the Ameda Purely Yours. Any recommendations? Should I have it on hand now, or wait until I know if I will be able to BF successfully... or might having it on hand be potentially useful in case I need it to relieve engorgement, help build supply, or be ready to exclusively pump if the Chicklette has some BFing issue?

Razormouth really is just beautiful.

I breastfed with #1 for 14 months (8-9 months of it was exclusively breastmilk), after having gone back to work at 14 weeks. I was able to pump in my office, which was crucial. With my second, I had to go down to a separate room to do it (I took only 10 weeks, was pumping in my office for a couple more months, but then changed jobs and had to use a nursing room), and it was much more difficult. Get blinds or something if you don't have total privacy in your office. It makes a huge difference. I was also able to visit my baby during the day (over lunchtime), so I was able to feed then, and at the end of the day, so she - who was very picky and would feed every other hour if she had me there - was fine.

I woudl go for the best pump you can buy. The commercial-grade ones are best. I used [can't remember brand name] pump-in-style or something. It was awesome. Second time around I bought a small one to try out for travel, and it was worthless.

Bnb is right - it may require being a hardass with the nurses and such, but if you want only breastmilk, then you can most likely do that. At least the first time I wouldn't let them come near her with a bottle, which made for a horrible night the first night before my milk really came in . But it was somethign I wanted to do. Absolutely necessary? No, but it is good to be resolved if you really want to breastfeed for that long. It will be easy not to, and I found it a relief when my second transitioned earlier, but I thought at the time that it was worth it.

And as far as having it on-hand "in case" - who knows, but with my first I had an unbelievable oversupply, so it was a total lifesaver.

I'm still very angry about losing my post, so a brief summary....

I have the PIS - it worked for 11mos of exclusive pumping and is still going strong for #2 (not EPing). I like it a lot - as much as you can like a breastpump. Plus, it takes the same parts you use in the hospital (they pretty much all use Medela Lactinas) so you can take the parts home and have spares. Nice.

I don't know what sort of jollies they get in the hospital from trying to ply the baby with formula against your wishes, but we had that problem both times. I won't go into it, just be prepared and have your hubby prepared to say no - you may not feel up to arguing about it when the times comes, so make sure hubby knows what you want and why you want it.

In addition to freezing 4-6 oz or whatever she normally eats, freeze 2oz portions so they won't have to defrost a whole meal portion if she seems a little hungrier than normal.

I liked the playtex ventaire bottles, BTW. You can pump right into them from the PIS if you want to.

Pump on a strict schedule, at least in the beginning - your boobs will get on schedule and will be ready to pump at the same time each day - they really can tell time!

Give baby a bottle fairly early - 3 weeks or so so she will take it. My kid won't take a bottle so here I am trying to figure out how I'm going to handle a jury trial in 3w with Mr. Boobiebaby in the sling.

Check out www.kellymom.com, www.breastfeeding.com, www.askdrsears.com, www.lalecheleague.com for more info. Have your local LLL leader's number on hand at the hospital in case you need it - the LCs at the hospitals are not always good or available, despite what they tell you beforehand.

If you have a short mat. leave you may need to pump 3x a day, but I cannot imagine 4x, unless your commute is a killer or you work super-long hours. After time, you should be able to go down to 2 or even 1, but don't try that until you are well-established.

Supply - not eating enough good quality protein or enough calories, low iron, sheer exhaustion and lack of sleep, pain, stress, dehydration, and PP depression can all kill supply, so be sure to take preemptive measures where you can.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
And honey, it is my firm belief that everyone is capable of breastfeeding successfully.

I will be sure to let my friend who had a baby 10 weeks early know where you and Atticus stand on this.


(crabby stuck at work late; no donuts. no reason to make such extreme statements. very annoying. could say something like many nurses very pushy with the formula; your baby didn't latch on for 2 weeks and screamed the whole time and lost 3 lbs after birth, but you persevered and the kid caught on and you happily breastfed.)

edited to delete extreme pissiness and fix a hyphenation problem. and because having total agreement from Atticus on a birth-related issue is probably punishment enough.

Originally posted by ltl/fb
no donuts. crabby.

My first kid wouldn't ever latch on. I pumped for the better part of a year and he only ever took a bottle. It wasn't my first choice and I would never suggest that it is the right choice for everyone, but it is an option, even for moms of preemies.

I have several friends who say they "could not" breastfeed, but the truth is they didn't really want to and should own up to that instead....one maintains her baby didn't like the way it tasted, so she had to quit after 3 days.

However, there are actual medical conditions (of baby or mom) that prevent nursing, medications that prevent nursing, and those that choose to use formula and shouldn't feel bad for making that choice. I actually have a medical condition that in some (thankfully not me) results in abslutely no milk production at all, so I know that it is quite possible. I'm going to have to assume that BNB was simply overgeneralizing in her zealous ambition to breastfeed the world.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by TexLex
My first kid wouldn't ever latch on. I pumped for the better part of a year and he only ever took a bottle. It wasn't my first choice and I would never suggest that it is the right choice for everyone, but it is an option, even for moms of preemies.

I have several friends who say they "could not" breastfeed, but the truth is they didn't really want to and should own up to that instead....one maintains her baby didn't like the way it tasted, so she had to quit after 3 days.

However, there are actual medical conditions (of baby or mom) that prevent nursing, medications that prevent nursing, and those that choose to use formula and shouldn't feel bad for making that choice. I actually have a medical condition that in some (thankfully not me) results in abslutely no milk production at all, so I know that it is quite possible. I'm going to have to assume that BNB was simply overgeneralizing in her zealous ambition to breastfeed the world.

if she had allowed for pumping and feeding breastmilk with a bottle, I would have cut her some slack. But nooooooo.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by dtb
Was there something in my message that made you think I was happy about the punching bag session?

It was the "proud parenting moment" comment. Anyhow, I thought the description was hilarious and I'd have been laughing my butt off. (Hopefully you are not really concerned about the incident!!)

[Note to self: you suck at board humor attempts]

On the suckling thread: one of the single gals I adopted with overseas chose to breastfeed. I was shocked but you can actually produce milk if you start using a breast pump several weeks before you adopt. I hear you have to really go to town on them with the pump and you usually don't get enough milk to supply 100% of the baby's needs. Still, that's amazing.

[SEC_Chick]

Originally posted by TexLex
I'm still very angry about losing my post, so a brief summary....

I don't know what sort of jollies they get in the hospital from trying to ply the baby with formula against your wishes, but we had that problem both times. I won't go into it, just be prepared and have your hubby prepared to say no - you may not feel up to arguing about it when the times comes, so make sure hubby knows what you want and why you want it.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I plan on going back after 12-13 weeks. The daycare is within walking distance of my office downtown, so I may be able to BF at lunch on a fairly regular basis. Only pumping 2-3 times doesn't seem so bad.

TexLex, did you deliver at Women's? If so I will watch them like a hawk. I wasn't expecting that problem, since most non-BFers bitch about the pro-BF attitude of the nurses.

OK, so now with the advice that everyone has given me, at what point do you start pumping, assuming a decent latch within the first week or so? When do you start building your freezer/referigerator stash and what's the best way to go about that?

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
And honey, it is my firm belief that everyone is capable of breastfeeding successfully. Just decide you're going to do it, don't let the nurses in the hospital talk you into giving the little one even one tiny bottle, and grit your teeth through the first 4 weeks. It gets easier as you and your baby both figure out what the hell to do.

I disagree. My wife successfully breastfed Soupette #s 2 and 3, but Soupette #1 could not be persuaded to latch on. For a while my wife pumped and we fed the baby the milk with an eyedropper. Two consults with lactation experts did not help with the lacthing on. After about a week of the baby not latching on, mom's milk wasn't coming in as much and the baby was dehydrated and turning a bit blue.

The doctor announced that we had to immediately switch to formula. The baby did beautifully with the bottle. I remember a nurse remarking, "Aren't you glad you live in a time where we have baby formula? Otherwise your child would die." Thanks, nurse.

Near as I can tell, my wife did nothing different with the 2nd and 3rd children, but they both latched on properly. In hindsight, I realize that Soupette #1 simply did not have the personality for breastfeeding: she is stubborn, has no patience, and has a ferocious temper.

So, no matter how motivated the mom is, some babys simply won't breastfeed. To suggest otherwise is simply nipple nazi propaganda.

Some of my friends suggest that my wife must have done things differently with the 2nd and 3rd kids. They say that the Soupette #1 wouldn't have let herself starve to death by not eating. Perhaps she wouldn't have, but as you can imagine, it wasn't a theory I was willing to test.

[bold_n_brazen]

Allow me to amend my earlier statement.

It is my firm belief that ALMOST everyone can breastfeed successfully.

It is also my firm belief that lots of women today decide that breastfeeding is too difficult, uncomfortable, awkward, painful, embarrassing, insert-your-own-adjective to try or to continue, and then claim that they were "unsuccessful or unable" to breastfeed.

Truth is, I don't give a shit whether anyone breastfeeds or bottle feeds or whatever they decide to do. As far as I'm concerned, it's a personal decision and one that doesn't have any impact at all on whether one is a good mother or whatever.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Concur, but if I'd posted this I would have gotten my ass chewed by Les Mesdames Razormouth.

You can concur all you like, but it's just not true. Around the time my first child was born, a girl (she was a teenager) in NYC was arrested (!!) after her baby died because she insisted on breastfeeding, but because she had had a breast reduction some years earlier, the milk just wasn't coming out and the baby died of starvation.

Some women have a physical inability to breastfeed, though I do think that the physical inability is mostly among the post-breast-reduction set. Those who have had boob jobs to make boobs bigger don't have the same difficulties, however (or so I've heard).


ETA: I'm not sure if I am one of the madames, and tempting as the offer is, I am not getting anywhere near your ass.

[dtb]

Originally posted by nononono
I woudl go for the best pump you can buy. The commercial-grade ones are best. I used [can't remember brand name] pump-in-style or something. It was awesome. Second time around I bought a small one to try out for travel, and it was worthless.

The other thing you can do is rent one from a surgical supply store. That way, you can try the different brands, and purchase the one that works best. I rented a few before taking the plunge on the industrial strength one.

[mommylawyer]

Originally posted by SEC_Chick
. For those of you who went back to working full time and were BFing, was pumping really feasible? I am a little overwhelmed with the thought of having to pump 4 times a day and managing the whole process. Please tell me it's not impossible. My goal is to BF for one year.

To answer your question - yes..I nursed/pumped for two - not always easy, but doable...and don't worry, you will be able to nurse successfully. I think its only a very small number of women who are truly unsuccessful at nursing...it natural, BUT not EASY. Once you get the hang of it and your boobs toughen up - you'll be fine....

One piece of advice, start pumping early, after a feeding. even if you only get a half ounce, just freeze it. Pumping is a lot different than nursing so you'll have to figure out what will make your milk come down so you have a productive pump. With DS, I could just hook up and my milk flowed with no assitance. With DD, I had to bring one of her tee's with me, and her little baby smell did it for me...weird, I know but hey whatever works...

I had the medela and it was pretty good. I got the middle one and burned it out with DS. then I got the big (commercial grade)one and that was for DS and DD, but I had a LOT of success with this hand pump

http://www.dreamtimebaby.com/avismanbreat.html

so much so if I knew I would have had that good an experience I would have never bought the electric pumps at all....

a lot of successful pumping is thinking you will be successful at it, but stress interupts milk production/flow...so don't worry.

does you job have a lactaion room or someplace other than a bathroom where you can pump without interruption? Don't laugh - my old firm hired a partner with young kids...she has friggin reformed the place. When I was there, none of the female associates had kids..now the place is like baby central...

ml

[dtb]

Originally posted by TexLex
I don't know what sort of jollies they get in the hospital from trying to ply the baby with formula against your wishes, but we had that problem both times. I won't go into it, just be prepared and have your hubby prepared to say no - you may not feel up to arguing about it when the times comes, so make sure hubby knows what you want and why you want it.

DON'T READ THIS, ATTICUS

I can't remember if you've had the baby already or not, but I think you haven't. If you have had the baby (and perhaps even if you haven't), this will be irrelevant (for you), but maybe not for others:

Make sure your husband is prepared to be insistent with the doctor administering the epidural (if you're going that way). They will try to allow a resident to administer it if you're in a teaching hospital. While it's important that residents practice, they don't need to practice on you. This was especially true in my case, as my first child was born in early July (only a couple weeks after the new crop of residents start). Ask if the anaesthesiologist (that is almost certainly misspelled) is board certified, and if s/he isn't, make sure you get the attending.

My kids' father was mortified to be insistent, as he comes from a family of doctors, and it's vaguely insulting to the doctor not to be permitted to "treat" you. However, if you request a board-certified doctor, the hospital is required to provide you with one. When we told my brother-in-law that we insisted on the board-certified doctor, he was insulted on the resident's behalf, but fuck that. I didn't want some wet-behind-the-ears anaesthesiologist fussing with my spinal column, and wasn't really in a state to argue. You need an iron-willed proxy.

[mommylawyer]

Originally posted by SEC_Chick

TexLex, did you deliver at Women's? If so I will watch them like a hawk. I wasn't expecting that problem, since most non-BFers bitch about the pro-BF attitude of the nurses.

OK, so now with the advice that everyone has given me, at what point do you start pumping, assuming a decent latch within the first week or so? When do you start building your freezer/referigerator stash and what's the best way to go about that?

I literally had to YELL at the nurse in the hospital to not give my child a bottle--of course I made sure everyone in there knew I was a lawyer.....its funny how they suddenly stopped telling me what I should do and began asking what I wanted. That is the ONLY place i volunteer my status as a member of the bar.

Build your stash as early and fully as possible. My D had a problem with her latching that we thought we corrected and didn't discover that it wasn't properly corrected (even though she was guzzling) until her first tooth came in...tlk about razor mouth...But I was able to pump and with my stash I kept her on BM. And the small packs - 1/2 ounce, single ounce, are great not only for topping off, but also to make cereal etc when you introduce solids...

ml

to answer another question - with my first I only had 6 weeks and daycare was too far to go nurse at lunch time....and my son was a great sleeper so i would nurse at pickup, because he'd fall asleep in the car and stay asleep until he woke up for his 10 pm feeding, and then he was out til 5:30. with my d, i took 12 weeks - with both istarted pumping and introduced the bottle at 3 weeks. Don't forget to have a totally different person introduce the bottle. My son was just greedy, but D wouldn't take the bottle from me until she was much older....

ETA - I concur with have a board cert doc on the epi - my kid came too fast to get the epi - but i made sure the doc was board cert..until the said stop - this baby is coming out!!!! I was like DUH!!!!! Second was with a midwife, no drugs either and she was pro mommy/baby/BF so none of those issues like at the hospital.....

[nononono]

Originally posted by TexLex
I'm still very angry about losing my post, so a brief summary....

I have the PIS - it worked for 11mos of exclusive pumping and is still going strong for #2 (not EPing). I like it a lot - as much as you can like a breastpump. Plus, it takes the same parts you use in the hospital (they pretty much all use Medela Lactinas) so you can take the parts home and have spares. Nice.

I don't know what sort of jollies they get in the hospital from trying to ply the baby with formula against your wishes, but we had that problem both times. I won't go into it, just be prepared and have your hubby prepared to say no - you may not feel up to arguing about it when the times comes, so make sure hubby knows what you want and why you want it.

In addition to freezing 4-6 oz or whatever she normally eats, freeze 2oz portions so they won't have to defrost a whole meal portion if she seems a little hungrier than normal.

I liked the playtex ventaire bottles, BTW. You can pump right into them from the PIS if you want to.

Pump on a strict schedule, at least in the beginning - your boobs will get on schedule and will be ready to pump at the same time each day - they really can tell time!

Give baby a bottle fairly early - 3 weeks or so so she will take it. My kid won't take a bottle so here I am trying to figure out how I'm going to handle a jury trial in 3w with Mr. Boobiebaby in the sling.

Check out www.kellymom.com, www.breastfeeding.com, www.askdrsears.com, www.lalecheleague.com for more info. Have your local LLL leader's number on hand at the hospital in case you need it - the LCs at the hospitals are not always good or available, despite what they tell you beforehand.

If you have a short mat. leave you may need to pump 3x a day, but I cannot imagine 4x, unless your commute is a killer or you work super-long hours. After time, you should be able to go down to 2 or even 1, but don't try that until you are well-established.

Supply - not eating enough good quality protein or enough calories, low iron, sheer exhaustion and lack of sleep, pain, stress, dehydration, and PP depression can all kill supply, so be sure to take preemptive measures where you can.

Ugh, I had to pump about 5x/day with the first. Before work, 2x at work, after work, middle of the night. In addition to doing 1-2 daytime + nighttime feedings. For over 6 months before it started to slow down. She nursed so often the supply was really up. Plus, I was stupid and didn't really get the hang of nursing/pumping at the same time or double pumping.

Second one didn't require as much and was much more regular, but then also it didn't last as long.

Side note - the different temperaments my kids showed as newborns, also reflected in their nursing/holding/sleeping needs, remain today. #1 is insistent, a little (!) bossy, needs me next to her so much while simultaneously headstrong and independent-minded, whereas #2 is easy to put to bed, has her needs fairly easily and simply met, agreeable, and though sometimes insistent on having me and only me with her (as is to be expected), for her age is mellower about it.