Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Don't worry, Club. OBL and Omar probably don't read SF Gate, so I doubt they've been tipped off.

Of course, this will prove ample fodder for the "October Surprise" theorists, but OTOH at least we've got a deadline over which Vegas (if not DARPA) can place some nice odds.

So what does everyone think? 3:1? 10:1?

-- Gattigap

There have been stories in the last few days that the military is planning a major offensive into Pakistan to go after the Taliban/OBL types there. Not sure that this story is related to that, but it would improve the odds.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
There have been stories in the last few days that the military is planning a major offensive into Pakistan to go after the Taliban/OBL types there. Not sure that this story is related to that, but it would improve the odds.

I think someone at Defense finally Googled him and got his new address.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think someone at Defense finally Googled him and got his new address.

They were a little slow to catch on to that type-your-phone-number-into-Google meme?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

With coverage of the Democratic debate like this, courtesy of [url=http://www.wonkette.com[/url], I don't need to watch:

• Debate Roundup: Twist and Shout
  Kucinich: Wants to "lay [his] hands" on America. As if we needed a reminder that he's single.
  Clark: Does not "blame" Bush for the 9/11 attacks, just thinks he "didn't do all he could have done to prevent them." We tried to convince our husband to see our affair this way.
  Edwards: Would like to remind you that, in addition to being the son of a mill worker, was born not far from here.
  Dean: Who's the guy with the neck? He sounds sort of familiar.
  Kerry: Takes credit only for the pretty legislation he's passed.
  Lieberman: The "experienced moderate" in the race. It's like being the tallest short man in the room. Ironically, he is the tallest short man in the room.
  Sharpton: Scores major points for disabusing Brokaw of the notion that the war on terrorism is being conducted against a bunch of black men in bow ties: "I assume when you say 'the Nation of Islam' you're talking about Islamic nations."
  Brokaw: Surprise winner in the pander-a-thon for showing us his pert, firm ass for the entire debate.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
With coverage of the Democratic debate like this, courtesy of http://www.wonkette.com, I don't need to watch:

• Brokaw: Surprise winner in the pander-a-thon for showing us his pert, firm ass for the entire debate.

Meredith sez to Wonkette, keep your slutty eyes off Tom's pert, firm ass, or I'll kick your sagging, fat, slimy, wanker-infested ass.

[andViolins]

Georgia considers banning 'evolution'

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The state's school superintendent has proposed striking the word evolution from Georgia's science curriculum and replacing it with the phrase "biological changes over time."

The change is included in more than 800 pages of draft revisions to Georgia's curriculum that have been posted by the Department of Education on its Web site. The middle and high school standards are expected to be voted on by the state Board of Education in May, after public feedback.

Superintendent Kathy Cox said the concept of evolution would still be taught under the proposal, but the word would not be used. The proposal would not require schools to buy new textbooks omitting the word evolution and would not prevent teachers from using it.

Cox repeatedly referred to evolution as a "buzzword" Thursday and said the ban was proposed, in part, to alleviate pressure on teachers in socially conservative areas where parents object to its teaching.

"If teachers across this state, parents across this state say, 'This is not what we want,' then we'll change it," said Cox, a Republican elected in 2002.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01....ap/index.html

Yep. This sounds like a winner to me. On the positive side, at least people can laugh at Georgia now, taking the pressure off of Ohio for a while.

aV

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by andViolins
Georgia considers banning 'evolution'

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The state's school superintendent has proposed striking the word evolution from Georgia's science curriculum and replacing it with the phrase "biological changes over time."

The change is included in more than 800 pages of draft revisions to Georgia's curriculum that have been posted by the Department of Education on its Web site. The middle and high school standards are expected to be voted on by the state Board of Education in May, after public feedback.

Superintendent Kathy Cox said the concept of evolution would still be taught under the proposal, but the word would not be used. The proposal would not require schools to buy new textbooks omitting the word evolution and would not prevent teachers from using it.

Cox repeatedly referred to evolution as a "buzzword" Thursday and said the ban was proposed, in part, to alleviate pressure on teachers in socially conservative areas where parents object to its teaching.

"If teachers across this state, parents across this state say, 'This is not what we want,' then we'll change it," said Cox, a Republican elected in 2002.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01....ap/index.html

Yep. This sounds like a winner to me. On the positive side, at least people can laugh at Georgia now, taking the pressure off of Ohio for a while.

aV

Query. What theory do you subscribe to, to explain the change from single cell life to multi-cell?
What theory do you subscribe to, to explain the developement or organ systems?

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Query. What theory do you subscribe to, to explain the change from single cell life to multi-cell?
What theory do you subscribe to, to explain the developement or organ systems?

Query. If I just say, "It's just too darn complicated, so I'm going with God," shouldn't that wrap it all up rather nicely?

aV

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by andViolins
Query. If I just say, "It's just too darn complicated, so I'm going with God," shouldn't that wrap it all up rather nicely?

aV

The poorly educated always take the word "evolution" to mean "did man come from monkeys?" Surely this is the problem the Georgia people have.
In fact, that close species can evolve isn't, I think, too controversial. Take mammouths and elephants. Clearly, there was evolution there.
What is really the problem with "evolution" replacing "Creationism" entirely is the existance of several points like I mention, which require a "miracle."
My pet peeve here is that the less well-washed accept anything a scientist says as Gospel truth. That why we have the periodic bizarre global warming screeds from San Fransico posters.
My overall goal on this board is not to change any of these people's mind to vote for Republicans. My simple goal here is to get you all to recognize that much science should be questioned, and not accepted mindlessly.
You blindly accept a scientific theory to denounce someone else, who blindly accepts religious theory. I don't mean to be snotty, but to allow this to stand would harm my broader agenda.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The poorly educated always take the word "evolution" to mean "did man come from monkeys?" Surely this is the problem the Georgia people have.
In fact, that close species can evolve isn't, I think, too controversial. Take mammouths and elephants. Clearly, there was evolution there.
What is really the problem with "evolution" replacing "Creationism" entirely is the existance of several points like I mention, which require a "miracle."
My pet peeve here is that the less well-washed accept anything a scientist says as Gospel truth. That why we have the periodic bizarre global warming screeds from San Fransico posters.
My overall goal on this board is not to change any of these people's mind to vote for Republicans. My simple goal here is to get you all to recognize that much science should be questioned, and not accepted mindlessly.
You blindly accept a scientific theory to denounce someone else, who blindly accepts religious theory. I don't mean to be snotty, but to allow this to stand would harm my broader agenda.

If your overall goal is to get people to question science, wouldn't you be a big supporter of the scientific method? How does Intelligent Design or creationism advance that agenda? If science can't explain why there appears to be a jump from single to multi-cell organisms in fossils about 6-700 million years ago, wouldn't you want to keep testing and exploring and fixing your theory? How does saying, "an advanced being played a part in this," do that?

aV

[bilmore]

Originally posted by andViolins
If your overall goal is to get people to question science, wouldn't you be a big supporter of the scientific method?

I think you misinterpret what Georgia just did. Yeah, they have their share of creation nuts - LOUD creation nuts, actually - and the Georgia officials just dodged a perrenial fight simply by not using that little E-word. I thought it was smart of them. They're still gonna teach the same course - but now, when the trailer-parkers do their google-searches on "Georgia school evolution", they get no hits, and sit back, pop a church-approved beeyah, and are satisfied. Quietly. It's like putting a "Genuine Pleather" sticker on your fur as you walk into the SPCA meet. It's like a fake alarm sticker on your house. It's creative misdirection. I applaud them.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The poorly educated always take the word "evolution" to mean "did man come from monkeys?" Surely this is the problem the Georgia people have.
In fact, that close species can evolve isn't, I think, too controversial. Take mammouths and elephants. Clearly, there was evolution there.
What is really the problem with "evolution" replacing "Creationism" entirely is the existance of several points like I mention, which require a "miracle."
My pet peeve here is that the less well-washed accept anything a scientist says as Gospel truth. That why we have the periodic bizarre global warming screeds from San Fransico posters.
My overall goal on this board is not to change any of these people's mind to vote for Republicans. My simple goal here is to get you all to recognize that much science should be questioned, and not accepted mindlessly.
You blindly accept a scientific theory to denounce someone else, who blindly accepts religious theory. I don't mean to be snotty, but to allow this to stand would harm my broader agenda.

Like the proponents of intelligent design, you ask questions but don't offer explanations of your own. If your simple goal is to question science, why stop with evolution? You'd better get busy, because there's a lot to question: geology, aerodynamics, nuclear physics, etc.

Originally posted by bilmore
It's like putting a "Genuine Pleather" sticker on your fur as you walk into the SPCA meet. It's like a fake alarm sticker on your house. It's creative misdirection. I applaud them.

I wish I agreed with you, but this would make me more likely to send my kids to private school if I lived there. Kids ought to be taught about evolution, and they ought to go to college having heard the word in school. What happens in these sorts of controversies is that the science gets dumbed down, and kids suffer.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think you misinterpret what Georgia just did. Yeah, they have their share of creation nuts - LOUD creation nuts, actually - and the Georgia officials just dodged a perrenial fight simply by not using that little E-word. I thought it was smart of them. They're still gonna teach the same course - but now, when the trailer-parkers do their google-searches on "Georgia school evolution", they get no hits, and sit back, pop a church-approved beeyah, and are satisfied. Quietly. It's like putting a "Genuine Pleather" sticker on your fur as you walk into the SPCA meet. It's like a fake alarm sticker on your house. It's creative misdirection. I applaud them.

No, I understand what Georgia is trying to do. Teach evolution but not say the big bad e-word. Science with a wink and a nod, I guess. I just think its stupid if we all know what they are really trying to do. In addition, I really don't think that the creation nuts are going to be too happy with this solution. What you quoted from me was in response to Hank, who I believe is just trying to be contrarian. It is Friday after all.

aV

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think you misinterpret what Georgia just did. Yeah, they have their share of creation nuts - LOUD creation nuts, actually - and the Georgia officials just dodged a perrenial fight simply by not using that little E-word. I thought it was smart of them. They're still gonna teach the same course - but now, when the trailer-parkers do their google-searches on "Georgia school evolution", they get no hits, and sit back, pop a church-approved beeyah, and are satisfied. Quietly. It's like putting a "Genuine Pleather" sticker on your fur as you walk into the SPCA meet. It's like a fake alarm sticker on your house. It's creative misdirection. I applaud them.

The approach does have its merits. It's just a little disappointing, though, that we're having to call things silly names in order to accomodate the local creation nut population (whom, by the way, we're assuming aren't smart enough to understand that the curriculum is in substance, still contrary to their interpretation of God's Word. Eventually word will reach the revival tent.)

[bilmore]

Originally posted by andViolins
What you quoted from me was in response to Hank, who I believe is just trying to be contrarian.

No, he's not.