A sad, constant bid for attention

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I don't go to any hip hop shows, so I'm not going to argue with you on that. It may even be that way in New York. I do know that those groups tend to make their music for black people. I also know that when I go to Nostrand Ave or Flatbush that everyone knows who Dead Prez are. I don't think if I went to Eden Prarie anyone would know who they are. But maybe I'm wrong.

For a long time there have been many white people who seek out and love underground hip hop. You know where I went to school. I could talk about true hip hop with a good number of white people at my school and the ones who loved the music wanted as much as they could get and learned shit from me and exposed me to shit as well. But on the whole, most white people there could only talk about MC Hammer, if you asked them.

As for the phenomenon of white people attending underground hip hop shows in MN, I don't know what's up with that. I can guess that because there are few blacks in MN and because they are as removed from places like Brooklyn or Chicago's south side as anyone else in the state that maybe they only spend their money on Fifty Cent and Jay-Z concerts and albums. Or maybe they're into that Dirty South/crunk crap that so many non-New Yorkers love (not to say there aren't plenty of New Yorkers who love that crap too).

Also, I've noticed that white kids who truly love hip hop (and the fact that hip hop is so big now means that there are generations who have grown up on it and seek out the best of it), feel like they want to be down. And knowing what's up in the underground is a great way to prove that they can be.

I think the two main points I'm trying to make are the same, though (and I don't think we've ever disagreed on this topic). The first is that mainstream hip hop is run by big labels and big labels are selling an image of urban america to the suburban kids who actually buy the albums. The second is that the groups you mention make music that is true to hip hop and black culture. That does not mean that white people are barred from participating. But it's very different music than what most people think about when they think about what rap music is.

TM

I was not around when this debate began, but based on what you are saying, I don't disagree with your main point. In fact, I'm totally on board with your last paragraph. But there are white kids in Eden Prairie who know the Dead Prez. And in Golden Valley and Maple Grove and White Bear Lake and Coon Rapids and all of the unfortunately named, predominantly white suburbs of the Twin Cities. They are a minority of the population there, just as all people who listen to underground music are a minority of the population. Otherwise, the music would be, by definition, mainstream. There is a strong underground hip hop community in Minneapolis, thanks in part to the Rhymesayers crew (whose most famous rapper, Slug of Atmosphere) is white. Because of them and their collaborations, we get to see lots of underground hip hop crews like Def Jux and Living Legends come through town, and their is good support for underground hip hop in general, including the groups you mentioned, each of whom Ihave seen more than once in Minneapolis, generally playing to decent or good-sized crowds. But I think a large part of the Rhyemsayers fan base is white kids from Minneapolis and inner ring suburbs. And I know that it drives some of those rappers crazy, while at the same time they appreciate the support.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Anything after The Last Poets is just product.

Can anyone recall the name of the guy who is still alive and was alleged to be the first rapper (started in the 1950s)? It was in some magazine, and on the radio the other day.

Are you talking about Gil Scott-Heron? I don't know if he is still alive or not.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
This describes me. I don't own an ipod and haven't bought a CD in over ten years. When I jog, I listen to the same tapes I made in the early 90s. When I'm in the car for short rides, I listen to the radio. For longer rides, I listen to what the kids are watching on DVD.

I also listen to the same tapes I made in the early nineties. Fortunately, these tapes are made up almost exclusively of cutting edge, underground music from 2008-2013.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
I was not around when this debate began, but based on what you are saying, I don't disagree with your main point. In fact, I'm totally on board with your last paragraph. But there are white kids in Eden Prairie who know the Dead Prez. And in Golden Valley and Maple Grove and White Bear Lake and Coon Rapids and all of the unfortunately named, predominantly white suburbs of the Twin Cities. They are a minority of the population there, just as all people who listen to underground music are a minority of the population. Otherwise, the music would be, by definition, mainstream. There is a strong underground hip hop community in Minneapolis, thanks in part to the Rhymesayers crew (whose most famous rapper, Slug of Atmosphere) is white. Because of them and their collaborations, we get to see lots of underground hip hop crews like Def Jux and Living Legends come through town, and their is good support for underground hip hop in general, including the groups you mentioned, each of whom Ihave seen more than once in Minneapolis, generally playing to decent or good-sized crowds. But I think a large part of the Rhyemsayers fan base is white kids from Minneapolis and inner ring suburbs. And I know that it drives some of those rappers crazy, while at the same time they appreciate the support.

Okay. You would definitely know better than I. It sounds like the interest is driven by a white rapper who has opened the eyes of these kids to the underground scene. That's cool. And I bet it must be a little weird to have a bunch of privileged white kids scream approval after you've just said, "Im down for runnin up on them crackers in they city hall."

TM

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
I was not around when this debate began, but based on what you are saying, I don't disagree with your main point. In fact, I'm totally on board with your last paragraph. But there are white kids in Eden Prairie who know the Dead Prez. And in Golden Valley and Maple Grove and White Bear Lake and Coon Rapids and all of the unfortunately named, predominantly white suburbs of the Twin Cities. They are a minority of the population there, just as all people who listen to underground music are a minority of the population. Otherwise, the music would be, by definition, mainstream. There is a strong underground hip hop community in Minneapolis, thanks in part to the Rhymesayers crew (whose most famous rapper, Slug of Atmosphere) is white. Because of them and their collaborations, we get to see lots of underground hip hop crews like Def Jux and Living Legends come through town, and their is good support for underground hip hop in general, including the groups you mentioned, each of whom Ihave seen more than once in Minneapolis, generally playing to decent or good-sized crowds. But I think a large part of the Rhyemsayers fan base is white kids from Minneapolis and inner ring suburbs. And I know that it drives some of those rappers crazy, while at the same time they appreciate the support.

I like Country and Western music. It speaks to my soul.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Are you talking about Gil Scott-Heron? I don't know if he is still alive or not.

No, there was some nut on the radio (I want to say it was Opie and Anthony, but it could have been a local show... I confuse them) who had "Black" in his name who has recordings of himself rapping, commercially, and quite filthily, over a drummer. He claims, and some magazine (Blender?) supports his claim, to be the father of rap.

He's an absolute idiot, and his rhymes are like the lyrics of that scatological pianist, John (Something) who's been touring since the 70s doing a Mark Russell meets Red Foxx shtick.

I hope this guy isn't the father of rap. Or anything else.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Rappers live a lifestyle that is about money and (often pretend) violence.

Tell that to Biggie.

[Fairfax District in the hizzouse!]

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Are you talking about Gil Scott-Heron? I don't know if he is still alive or not.

The Revolution will not be televised. The Revolution will not be televised.

The Revolution will not be brought to you live by Xerox in four parts without commerical interruption.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Okay. You would definitely know better than I. It sounds like the interest is driven by a white rapper who has opened the eyes of these kids to the underground scene. That's cool. And I bet it must be a little weird to have a bunch of privileged white kids scream approval after you've just said, "Im down for runnin up on them crackers in they city hall."

TM

No weirder than it was 25 years ago when rich white kids from the suburbs shouted N.W.A. lyrics about the harassment black urban youth faced at the hands of a corrupt police force.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
No weirder than it was 25 years ago when rich white kids from the suburbs shouted N.W.A. lyrics about the harassment black urban youth faced at the hands of a corrupt police force.

or when 14-yo girls used to be down with OPP.

[Gattigap]

If anyone has a home remedy for a "mild concussion" other than going back home and going to bed, let me know.

Carry on.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Gattigap
If anyone has a home remedy for a "mild concussion" other than going back home and going to bed, let me know.

Carry on.

I thought you weren't supposed to let someone with head trauma go to sleep.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
There was a thing on NPR about a month or so ago about trying to document when people become set in their ways with regard to exploring new music. The research (and i'm not really sure that the research method was sound, you may differ in your opinion) suggested it was somewhere around mid-thirties that people generally stop looking for new things to listen to.

The counter, apparently, is to not get settled in or excel in the place you work. People who move around in their jobs a lot seemingly recover their edge.

I, frankly, find myself looking for more new stuff to do and experience as I approach my mid-30s, so I'm not necessarily convinced by this guy's conclusions.

I've heard the "once I started focusing on my career I gave up listening to music" or "music is an escape for people who just want to shut off their minds, and I'm always thinking" argument before from boring business people (actually, my father beats me over the head with that every time we're in the car together). That's bullshit. If you don't have the brain capacity to have otside interests and work, you should give up work.

My wife's musical taste is jammed in the 80s nostalgia shit. I can't take an fucking more Cure or Echo. Its awful. I try to drag her ahead, but she loves that 80s stuff. Maddening.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Gattigap
If anyone has a home remedy for a "mild concussion" other than going back home and going to bed, let me know.

Carry on.

If you do go back home and go to bed, make sure someone wakes you up every few hours. Concussions, even mild ones, can be dangerous.

And whenever I have been concussed, I've been told not to take anything for it because it could interfere with the body's healing.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Gattigap
If anyone has a home remedy for a "mild concussion" other than going back home and going to bed, let me know.

Carry on.

Take a cute former lawyer out to lunch. Or just bring her a chocolate cake. She will reimburse you.