A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Sure, you just keep on believing that. As for me, I am going to start catching up on the Left Behind series.

don't forget to forswear the UF.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Adder
I think you need a longer track record. Sebby has MANY problems with America.

For fuck's sake, adder, please try re-reading posts assuming sarcasm before posting to correct someone.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Read this instead -- it's shorter, it's free, and it's less irritating. Start from the bottom.

The Left Behind movies are fucking funny as hell.

I need to offer an explanation on some of my religious thought. I am not against anyone believing in organized religion. Do what you like. Frankly, the better parts of Islam, Christianity and Judaism and Buddhism are good guideposts for living. BUT, if you believe in gibberish like The Fucking Rapture, which was invented of whole cloth by a crazy Irish minister in the 19th century, you are a fucking imbecile who has no business involving himself in any debate about anything.

[sgtclub]

• House Democrats tried to unveil their lobbying reform package today, but their press conference was drowned out by chants from anti-war activists who want Congress to stop funding the Iraq war before taking on other issues.
  
  Led by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a slain soldier, the protesters chanted "De-escalate, investigate, troops home now" as Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., began outlining the Democrats' plans to ban lobbyist-funded travel and institute other ethics reforms. The press conference was held in the Cannon House Office Building in an area open to the public.
  
  
  Emanuel finally gave up trying to be heard over the chants, and retreated to a caucus room where Democrats were meeting.
  
  Sheehan says she has nothing against lobbying reform, but she and her fellow anti-war activists want Democrats to know they will keep pressuring Congress to end the war in Iraq.
  
  "We wanted the Democrats to know they're back in power because of the grass roots," Sheehan says.
  
  The anti-war activists held their own Capitol Hill press conference earlier in the day before deciding to attend the lobbying reform press conference as well.
  
  Before the chanting started, Sheehan got a hug from Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the new chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
  

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Before the chanting started, Sheehan got a hug from Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the new chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.

Looks like Cindy has a future on Conyers staff.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Looks like Cindy has a future on Conyers staff.

Please, Penske, don't photoshop that image for us.

[SlaveNoMore]

Cletus Miller
Are you refering to something other than the misuse of his staff's time? Because that doesn't seem so outrageous, sitting here in Illinois.

And knowing what more than a few federal judges have their clerks do, the personal errand and babysitting stuff seems a non-issue.

There's plenty.

Being reprimanded on ethics issues the weekend before taking over as judiciary committee chairman is amusing.

Stealing turkeys from the poor is even funnier.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by sgtclub

• House Democrats tried to unveil their lobbying reform package today, but their press conference was drowned out by chants from anti-war activists who want Congress to stop funding the Iraq war before taking on other issues.
  
  Led by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a slain soldier, the protesters chanted "De-escalate, investigate, troops home now" as Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., began outlining the Democrats' plans to ban lobbyist-funded travel and institute other ethics reforms. The press conference was held in the Cannon House Office Building in an area open to the public.
  
  
  Emanuel finally gave up trying to be heard over the chants, and retreated to a caucus room where Democrats were meeting.
  
  Sheehan says she has nothing against lobbying reform, but she and her fellow anti-war activists want Democrats to know they will keep pressuring Congress to end the war in Iraq.
  
  "We wanted the Democrats to know they're back in power because of the grass roots," Sheehan says.
  
  The anti-war activists held their own Capitol Hill press conference earlier in the day before deciding to attend the lobbying reform press conference as well.
  
  Before the chanting started, Sheehan got a hug from Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the new chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
  

That's not interesting. That's just more clueless screwheads. But God bless em... Anybody who tries to force change on DC deserves a hand.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky
I agree with that 100%.

Even if Iraq was sown up tighter than a frog's derriere in water tomorrow, I don't see the US attacking Iran, even just in the air. I just don't see it accomplishing anything.

We let Israel, South African, Pakistan, India, Brazil and North Korea all go nuclear without doing anything. Why would we do something against Iran? However, after letting NK go nuclear, maybe someone will decide it is time to draw the line. But short of a full scale invasion (which is about as likely as Britney Spears winning a Nobel Prize in Physics) what could we really do militarily?

But I can't see Israel sitting still. Yet I don't think there is anything Israel can do.

What I am really saying is that no matter what happens it won't surprise me.

Any one want to lob a prediction on what will happen out there?

Nothing?

[andViolins]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The Left Behind movies are fucking funny as hell.

I need to offer an explanation on some of my religious thought. I am not against anyone believing in organized religion. Do what you like. Frankly, the better parts of Islam, Christianity and Judaism and Buddhism are good guideposts for living. BUT, if you believe in gibberish like The Fucking Rapture, which was invented of whole cloth by a crazy Irish minister in the 19th century, you are a fucking imbecile who has no business involving himself in any debate about anything.

And that my friend is why you're going to be left here with all the other sinners. Like me.

Behind!

aV

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Adder
Well, gee, I'm kinda slow and all, but I am pretty sure that it wasn't to suggest that deep down in places they don't talk about, our law enforcement officials secretly get their rocks off on torturing people. On the other hand, I am willing to bet he thinks that they do want to do everything they can do be able to do their jobs.

Or perhaps he was getting at the idea that people may be tempted to do something that they otherwise would find morally objectionable, and maybe we shouldn't base moral or policy decisions based on an unrealistic scenario that plays to that temptation.

query: why not hire a youngish looking prostitute and tell the terrorist it is the interrogator's child?

[Spanky]

The London Times January 04, 2007

Operations cancelled as NHS runs out of money Nigel Hawkes, Health Editor # Patients told to wait for routine treatment # Casualty staff asked to turn people away http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...530550,00.html

Patients are being denied basic operations, including treatments for varicose veins, wisdom teeth and bad backs, as hospitals try frantically to balance the books by the end of the financial year, The Times can reveal.

NHS trusts throughout the country are making sweeping cuts to services and delaying appointments in an attempt to address their debts before the end of March. Family doctors have been told to send fewer patients to hospital, A&E departments have been instructed to turn people away, and a wide range of routine procedures has been suspended.

In one example of the cash-saving strategies, seen by The Times, a primary care trust in Yorkshire has told hospitals that they will not be paid for some non-essential operations, while patients will not be given a hospital appointment in under eight weeks. Similar tactics have emerged at hospitals in Norfolk and Surrey, while dozens of trusts have resorted to closing beds and offering voluntary redundancy in recent months. Devon Primary Care Trust has offered voluntary redundancy to all 5,000 staff.

The cuts are widespread, although there are no central records to provide definitive figures. Among the most comprehensive plans are those from North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust, which faces a deficit of £24 million this year.

A letter from its chief executive, Janet Soo-Chung, says that all non-urgent admissions must be approved by an assessment team or they will not be paid for. A&E departments in Harrogate, Scarborough, South Tees and York have been told that they will not be paid for treating patients with minor ailments who could go elsewhere.

No patients will be given a hospital appointment in less than eight weeks, and none admitted for elective surgery unless they have waited a minimum of 12 to 16 weeks. Those treated quicker will not be paid for.

The trust also announced the immediate suspension of treatments for varicose veins, wisdom teeth, X-rays of the back, operations for carpal tunnel syndrome, bunions, arthroscopy of the knee, and grommets for the ear, among others. “We fully appreciate the difficulties that the introduction of these measures entail," Dr Soo-Chung’s letter says. "However, the financial position of the PCT is such that there is absolutely no alternative to this programme if we are to avoid even more difficult decisions in the near future."

Norfolk PCT has issued similar instructions, telling hospitals not to treat patients who have waited less than 17 weeks — expected to rise to 18 weeks by February. Hilary Daniels, the interim chief executive, told hospitals to work out how many patients could be deferred until next financial year, and said that the trust would not pay for elective operations on smokers until they had attended smoking clinics.

Andrew Lansley, the Conservative health spokesman, said: “The Labour project has proved utterly incapable of running our NHS. Centrally imposed initiatives and costly targets have plunged the NHS into a record deficit. The NHS needs greater freedoms at a local level to return it on a stable and sustainable financial footing.”

In a report published this week, the think-tank Reform said that NHS deficits were deepening. It called for a one-off repayment of debt followed by a more rigorous financial regime and immediate administration for failing trusts. But the idea was rejected by the Department of Health.

On the delays to appointments and operations, a spokesman said it was a matter for the local NHS, provided that national targets were not breached. However, the department has not left it all to local managers but has introduced fines for hospitals that operate too fast. These can amount to millions of pounds.

Last year the NHS returned a net deficit of £512 million, a fraction of the total budget. But the scale of the problems was concealed by strategic health authorities saving large amounts of money largely by cutting education and training budgets.

The costs

Cost of operation (consultant fee & follow-up)

Varicose vein operation £993 (£220)

Ear infection (eg grommet) £1,014 (£190)

Minor spinal procedure £605 (£300)

Minor foot procedures (eg bunion) £836 (£220)

Source: Dept of Health; NHS National Tariff 06/07

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Spanky
The London Times January 04, 2007

Operations cancelled as NHS runs out of money Nigel Hawkes, Health Editor # Patients told to wait for routine treatment # Casualty staff asked to turn people away http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...530550,00.html

Patients are being denied basic operations, including treatments for varicose veins, wisdom teeth and bad backs, as hospitals try frantically to balance the books by the end of the financial year, The Times can reveal.

NHS trusts throughout the country are making sweeping cuts to services and delaying appointments in an attempt to address their debts before the end of March. Family doctors have been told to send fewer patients to hospital, A&E departments have been instructed to turn people away, and a wide range of routine procedures has been suspended.

In one example of the cash-saving strategies, seen by The Times, a primary care trust in Yorkshire has told hospitals that they will not be paid for some non-essential operations, while patients will not be given a hospital appointment in under eight weeks. Similar tactics have emerged at hospitals in Norfolk and Surrey, while dozens of trusts have resorted to closing beds and offering voluntary redundancy in recent months. Devon Primary Care Trust has offered voluntary redundancy to all 5,000 staff.

The cuts are widespread, although there are no central records to provide definitive figures. Among the most comprehensive plans are those from North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust, which faces a deficit of £24 million this year.

A letter from its chief executive, Janet Soo-Chung, says that all non-urgent admissions must be approved by an assessment team or they will not be paid for. A&E departments in Harrogate, Scarborough, South Tees and York have been told that they will not be paid for treating patients with minor ailments who could go elsewhere.

No patients will be given a hospital appointment in less than eight weeks, and none admitted for elective surgery unless they have waited a minimum of 12 to 16 weeks. Those treated quicker will not be paid for.

The trust also announced the immediate suspension of treatments for varicose veins, wisdom teeth, X-rays of the back, operations for carpal tunnel syndrome, bunions, arthroscopy of the knee, and grommets for the ear, among others. “We fully appreciate the difficulties that the introduction of these measures entail," Dr Soo-Chung’s letter says. "However, the financial position of the PCT is such that there is absolutely no alternative to this programme if we are to avoid even more difficult decisions in the near future."

Norfolk PCT has issued similar instructions, telling hospitals not to treat patients who have waited less than 17 weeks — expected to rise to 18 weeks by February. Hilary Daniels, the interim chief executive, told hospitals to work out how many patients could be deferred until next financial year, and said that the trust would not pay for elective operations on smokers until they had attended smoking clinics.

Andrew Lansley, the Conservative health spokesman, said: “The Labour project has proved utterly incapable of running our NHS. Centrally imposed initiatives and costly targets have plunged the NHS into a record deficit. The NHS needs greater freedoms at a local level to return it on a stable and sustainable financial footing.”

In a report published this week, the think-tank Reform said that NHS deficits were deepening. It called for a one-off repayment of debt followed by a more rigorous financial regime and immediate administration for failing trusts. But the idea was rejected by the Department of Health.

On the delays to appointments and operations, a spokesman said it was a matter for the local NHS, provided that national targets were not breached. However, the department has not left it all to local managers but has introduced fines for hospitals that operate too fast. These can amount to millions of pounds.

Last year the NHS returned a net deficit of £512 million, a fraction of the total budget. But the scale of the problems was concealed by strategic health authorities saving large amounts of money largely by cutting education and training budgets.

The costs

Cost of operation (consultant fee & follow-up)

Varicose vein operation £993 (£220)

Ear infection (eg grommet) £1,014 (£190)

Minor spinal procedure £605 (£300)

Minor foot procedures (eg bunion) £836 (£220)

Source: Dept of Health; NHS National Tariff 06/07

Why do we debate NHS so much? It can't work here because it'd rip the fabric of our society. It'll just work like public schools. The people that want to, or live in areas that dictate they ought to, will opt out of it. The marketplace will give them options.

Is there anyone who doubts that if NHS is employed, it will have the effect of separating the good docs/hospitals from the lousy ones? It's a fast track to sticking the poor with the worst possible health care, and creating a new class division. The only way to implement it in such a way that would be fair would be to force docs to participate, which is unconstitutional.

There is no way a quality doc will get paid by the govt at the rate he would in the private market, particularly where the private market would be the economic cream of society. Implementing it would just be a gift to docs - a filtering out of all non-paying patients.

BTW, a study released yesterday in the NYTime noted that access to health care is not a big issue in terms of life span. The bigger issue is education. People with more schooling tended to live a few extra years.

[nononono]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Why do we debate NHS so much? It can't work here because it'd rip the fabric of our society. It'll just work like public schools. The people that want to, or live in areas that dictate they ought to, will opt out of it. The marketplace will give them options.

Is there anyone who doubts that if NHS is employed, it will have the effect of separating the good docs/hospitals from the lousy ones? It's a fast track to sticking the poor with the worst possible health care, and creating a new class division. The only way to implement it in such a way that would be fair would be to force docs to participate, which is unconstitutional.

There is no way a quality doc will get paid by the govt at the rate he would in the private market, particularly where the private market would be the economic cream of society. Implementing it would just be a gift to docs - a filtering out of all non-paying patients.

BTW, a study released yesterday in the NYTime noted that access to health care is not a big issue in terms of life span. The bigger issue is education. People with more schooling tended to live a few extra years.

Even Britain's going at least partially privatized. [*I know important people promo alert!*] I've talked with the guy who was in Blair's cabinet who's at least partially responsible for making that happen. Nothing happens fast, though.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
query: why not hire a youngish looking prostitute and tell the terrorist it is the interrogator's child?

Brilliant! All law enforcement officials want to rape youngish prostitutes!