Fashion Board 4-6-04 to 5-7-04

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
is it too early?
what's with the "no quote?" you only do that to one other poster.

My question really didn't have anything to do with your quote. The other poster really doesn't have anything to do with anything.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
Perhaps the greatest sports related tirade of all time is still the April, 1983 obscenity-filled locker room rant to reporters by then-Chicago Cubs manager Lee Elia (directed at Cub FANS, no less).

Ohh, yeah. Good one. Which reminds me, didn't Hal McRae completely lose it once when he was manager of KC?

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Well this is just silly, although misguided- attractive young people show butt and they get a ticket, fat old plumbers are given a pass? Its like the next breaticle day you decide only Spooky and T. can post.

Don't worry Hank, old boy. I already promised your mother that those pictures I have of her would never see the light of day.

[Berry Hunter]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
anal cleavage? I dont' even think Tara Reid shows that.

There's always Paris Hilton. *






* A cleft anus sounds painful, though

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Me
It is not about sensitivity. It is more about what it says when you let these racial slurs get to you like that. As an example, if someone calls an Italian a whoop or a guido, most Italians I know just laugh. It doesn't bother them because it is just laughable to them that anyone would consider them inferior because they are Italian.

But blacks don't laugh at racial slurs. Why isn't it laughable to blacks to be considered inferior? I think this is another example of internalized racism.

1. Nobody hanged guidos;

2. Nobody enslaved guidos;

3. Nobody barred guidos from voting.

I could go on, but you get the picture. You're stretching. Apples and oranges. And I think you know it.

I agree the Atkinson thing is funny because its funny to see any idiot fuck up on camera like that.

Is he a racist? Yep. When I see a lazy black or white person, my knee jerk reaction, despite the Irish Catholic upbringing, is to think "lazy fuck," not "lazy nigger." That Atkinson went for the n-bomb right out of the chute shows he views blackness and laziness as one in the same. He got caught thinking out loud, and his thought was racist. Hence, he's a racist - not a racist like a KKK Grand Dragon, but nevertheless a racist.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by barely_legal

I hope that Sebby chimes in soon with a post about how tacky ultrasuede is so that I don't have to get rid of it.

No, Barely, ultrasuede is a miracle.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. Nobody hanged guidos;

2. Nobody enslaved guidos;

3. Nobody barred guidos from voting.

I could go on, but you get the picture. You're stretching. Apples and oranges. And I think you know it.

For awhile I was getting this Italian American lawyer magazine- it was pure paranoia. They would be doing pro-bono challenges at the Trademary Office to prevent a restaurant from registering Ma Fia's. Too much time on their hands.

But one article was sort of enlightening and maybe hopeful. There was a story about Saccho and Venzetti. they were 2 immigrants that were executed in the 20's (maybe 30's) and people made a cause of it at the time. There were allegations it was trumped up evidence.

Anyway, there was a quote from a major newspaper editorial at the time that basically said "Of course they did it; these people kill each other and everyone else like its nothing."

The sentiment is so far from what any percentage of people would think now, that its presence in a major paper 70 or 80 years ago seems impossible. Yet the country's perception changed.

anyway, I saw it as a positive that the public perception of any people can change, and hopefully will change so that there are fewer and fewer anti-black racists each generation.

but its also evidence that bigotry goes all sorts of ways sebby.

[Alex_de_Large]

Paris Hilton: Cuming soon to a porn shop near you. The title: "One Night In Paris." Very creative, IMHO.

spree: news article

[baltassoc]

Seb: great post

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
anyway, I saw it as a positive that the public perception of any people can change, and hopefully will change so that there are fewer and fewer anti-black racists each generation.

I think there is some basis for this. I see it in my own family. My grandfathers were terrible racists, one overt and the other more quitely, but as adamently (To be fair, the overt racist was not discriminatory - he hated just about everybody, including the eye-talleons. I think the fact I married a Catholic took years off his life. According to his brother, when they were growing up, people used to tell ghost stories of Jesuit priests stealing babies to cook and eat.).

In moments of weakness, my parents sometimes inadvertently reveal the fact that race is still important to them, but they do their best to appear non-racist. My favorite example is my mother describing her co-worker "I don't think of her as black." I think for their era (very early baby boom) this isn't too bad. As I said, they've been careful to hide their impulses, especially from their kids.

I tend to be pretty race neutral myself, but I can admit that when I'm in a sketchy area race probably enters into my risk analysis. I'm not proud of it, but there it is.

My kids live in a highly integrated neighborhood, and I hope that when they are adults, the idea of discrimination on the basis of race is the kind of bizarre anachronism that discriminating against Italians and Irish is today (I'm trying to be optimistic but realistic here) and that their kids will think the concept totally foreign.

We'll see, I suppose.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Seb: great post


I think there is some basis for this. I see it in my own family. My grandfathers were terrible racists, one overt and the other more quitely, but as adamently (To be fair, the overt racist was not discriminatory - he hated just about everybody, including the eye-talleons. I think the fact I married a Catholic took years off his life. According to his brother, when they were growing up, people used to tell ghost stories of Jesuit priests stealing babies to cook and eat.).

In moments of weakness, my parents sometimes inadvertently reveal the fact that race is still important to them, but they do their best to appear non-racist. My favorite example is my mother describing her co-worker "I don't think of her as black." I think for their era (very early baby boom) this isn't too bad. As I said, they've been careful to hide their impulses, especially from their kids.

I tend to be pretty race neutral myself, but I can admit that when I'm in a sketchy area race probably enters into my risk analysis. I'm not proud of it, but there it is.

My kids live in a highly integrated neighborhood, and I hope that when they are adults, the idea of discrimination on the basis of race is the kind of bizarre anachronism that discriminating against Italians and Irish is today (I'm trying to be optimistic but realistic here) and that their kids will think the concept totally foreign.

We'll see, I suppose.

I think teenagers right now are much more advanced regarding race relations than we were at their age. Even moreso than you would expect.

[purse junkie]

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/...ry=4268#photos

(sorry, I can't ever figure out how to post the actual photo)

Either that, or she's had her face Botoxed into utter paralysis.

That said, Tina Fey looks hot (though I do prefer her wearing the sexy librarian glasses). What are all you detractors thinking?

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I think teenagers right now are much more advanced regarding race relations than we were at their age. Even moreso than you would expect.

This doesn't surprise me. I went to school in a segregated system until I was in third grade, and the reality of race relations between students changed pretty radically over even the ten years between then and high school. There are no kids today who go to (officially) segregated schools, so I'd imagine the effect is even greater.

I still think it'll be another two generations before it gets stamped out of the more rural areas, though.

[Alex_de_Large]

Originally posted by purse junkie
http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/...ry=4268#photos

(sorry, I can't ever figure out how to post the actual photo)

Either that, or she's had her face Botoxed into utter paralysis.

That said, Tina Fey looks hot (though I do prefer her wearing the sexy librarian glasses). What are all you detractors thinking?

From that same site:

[Alex_de_Large]

CNN.com is reporting that former NFL DB Pat Tillman was recently killed in action in Afghanistan. Very, very sad.

edit: the original post had one too many acronyms

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I think there is some basis for this. I see it in my own family. My grandfathers ...

You remind me of a visit, long ago, to some family in the South. We saw my great aunt, who was 90-something and in a nursing home. She was actually pretty cool - she hadn't just asserted that she "supported" the civil rights movement 20 years after the fact, she'd gone on some of the major marches in the '50s and '60s, petitioned the VA legislature to overturn discriminatory laws, etc. This is a white woman born in the deep south in 1900. Anyhow, we're visiting her and someone asks her what she thinks of some candidate (black) for some state gov. position. Her response was "you know I've always supported equality for negroes*. They should be able to vote and work and live like anyone else. But I can't get used to the idea that they'd run for public office." Whaaa?? I guess she had departed from the mainstream culture she grew up in as far as she could depart, and she just couldn't depart no more, but the strange, random place where her logic broke down on her just highlighted to me how ... non-logical and unsusceptible to reason these sorts of cultural issues can be.

Anyhow, concur that it is a multi-generational process and getting better with each generation. Just noting that the way the process moves forward can be weird and unexpected. And, our generation tends to forget that there are about 2 generations of people alive today who actually lived through Jim Crow - it's not an historical anachronism yet, it is, literally, in living memory. Yet somehow that seems completely unbelieveable to me. Driving around my father's home town, having him point out "that's where I went to school ... that's where the black kids went to school... that's where [X black kid] beat me in [Y sport] but I still won first place because he was black and I decided I needed to get the hell out of here" just seems unreal, like he has to be telling me some story he heard third hand - he couldn't have spent 18 or 20 years of his life living like that! Impossible! That's a shitload of a lot of progress in just a generation, and so I have every confidence that my kids' generation will look at us and read about OJ and Michael Jackson and Amadou Dialo and wonder who put the acid in our water supply.

*see prior post about grandfathering in really old people who learned different respectful terms