Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The flip-side of this is that a pro-Life state is a state where people are accountable for their actions. At heart, that's the big picture for me. You make a choice, you live with it. In your words yesterday, caveat emptor. Take accountability out of the equation (i.e., eliminate Darwin's law) and evolution rolls backward. So you can live in the state with the people who don't want to be accountable, and who think the government can solve problems and impose solutions on just about anything.

What a crock of shit. If you go outside when it's cold out and you don't wear your hat and catch a cold, do you have to catch pnemonia and die to be accountable for your actions?

We have a name for this state already. Its called Illinois.

Just fucking move. We're all sick of hearing you whine about Chicago and Illinois. I'm sure there are fine people just like you in Idaho. You choose to live in Illinois. Be accountable for your actions and quit burdening us with your mistakes.

Find me any positive trend over the last 40 years in Illinois. Really, anything you can characterize as positive. Compare it to the national trend for the same thing. At best, Illinois is advancing at a slower rate than the national average. At worst, its retreating.

Though struggling recently, the Bulls had a pretty good run.

Part of the reason I'd like to live in the pro-Life state when this happens is because this is the boring state with very little crime, very little welfare, a strong job base, and neighbors who can walk around with a gun without shooting anyone. We have a name for this state already. Its called Virginia. It could use some neighborhood bars, but otherwise its okay.

You really haven't spent much time in Virginia, have you?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bilmore
I was too subtle for you again, wasn't I?

I know with the time zone you are still getting your first cup of coffee, so I'll explain it to you.

You said you agreed with me. I understand. You think he is running both Iraq and the economy well. Not very subtle.

I said we agree and so do most Americans, and then noted that "most Americans believe that invading Iraq makes us less safe and that the recession is not over." See, I'm pointing out that on the underlying issues of Iraq and the economy, most Americans have a negative view today. So agree with me all you want, each with our own interpretation. Most Americans interpret it my way.

So, my point is, believe what you will, if Kerry tonight links Bush's abilities to run the economy and to run the war in Iraq, Kerry wins and Bush loses.

Let me buy you an extra latte this morning. You look like you could use it. We'll talk about the GOP pork bill after you've finished it.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
I was too subtle for you again, wasn't I?

No, I think he's being just as subtle as you were.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think most Americans agree with that line - that's why it is powerful. Just as most Americans believe that invading Iraq makes us less safe and that the recession is not over.

42. Quick Before It Sinks


The Professor thinks that the island is sinking, which causes the Castaways to panic. As it turns out, Gilligan has mistakenly moved the Professor's measuring stick, so the panic was a false alarm.


b: 28-Oct-1965 w: Stan Burns & Mike Marmer d: George Cahan





Kerry 228 Bush 291

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
Funny, I read AG's post about that issue, and got the opposite impression.

Perhaps. But you responded to my post, not his.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
What a crock of shit. If you go outside when it's cold out and you don't wear your hat and catch a cold, do you have to catch pnemonia and die to be accountable for your actions?

Just fucking move. We're all sick of hearing you whine about Chicago and Illinois. I'm sure there are fine people just like you in Idaho. You choose to live in Illinois. Be accountable for your actions and quit burdening us with your mistakes.

Though struggling recently, the Bulls had a pretty good run.

You really haven't spent much time in Virginia, have you?

Junior, if you go outside when it's cold and smoke crack, am I accountable for your braindamage? The dermatologist called and moved your appointment up to 1:00 today. Need a note for your home ec teacher?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
42. Quick Before It Sinks


The Professor thinks that the island is sinking, which causes the Castaways to panic. As it turns out, Gilligan has mistakenly moved the Professor's measuring stick, so the panic was a false alarm.


b: 28-Oct-1965 w: Stan Burns & Mike Marmer d: George Cahan

Kerry 228 Bush 291

That was a favorite episode of mine, and it's Oh so appropriate for a discussion of George "I own a Timber Company?!" Bush.

Good to see you're back with the program on electoral-vote.com. I hope you read the analysis today.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The flip-side of this is that a pro-Life state is a state where people are accountable for their actions. At heart, that's the big picture for me. You make a choice, you live with it. In your words yesterday, caveat emptor. Take accountability out of the equation (i.e., eliminate Darwin's law) and evolution rolls backward. So you can live in the state with the people who don't want to be accountable, and who think the government can solve problems and impose solutions on just about anything. We have a name for this state already. Its called Illinois.

The problem with this particular brand of "caveat emptor" is that the burden falls disproportionately on the woman -- the father gets off scot free ("deadbeat dad" laws notwithstanding). If there were a true consequence for the at-least-as-culpable male participant, I'd be a lot more inclined to go along with this view (I probably still wouldn't, but it's more intellectually honest, anyway). Come to think of it, if there were a true consequence for the male participant, unwanted and/or teenage pregnancy, etc. probably wouldn't be the epidemic that it is.

(Before you jump in Slave, I'm not saying that ALL male participants shirk their responsibilities, or even that they all want to -- but the burden carried in the situations Sebby described of unwanted and/or teenage pregnancies fall largely on the girl -- and you know it.)

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Junior, if you go outside when it's cold and smoke crack, am I accountable for your braindamage? The dermatologist called and moved your appointment up to 1:00 today. Need a note for your home ec teacher?

Not only funny, but orignial, too? hello, you're the whole package. Now go build your wife a menstrual hut on the side of your mountain in Idaho.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Perhaps. But you responded to my post, not his.

You're here. He's not. Go figure.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by dtb
The problem with this particular brand of "caveat emptor" is that the burden falls disproportionately on the woman

I think this is the reason many pro-choicers are for abortion rights - they are trying to make up for a biological inequity that only women are the one's who get pregnant.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by dtb
The problem with this particular brand of "caveat emptor" is that the burden falls disproportionately on the woman -- the father gets off scot free

Fair or unfair, men can't get pregnant. Pregnancy-related problems are always going to affect women more than men.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
The flip-side of this is that a pro-Life state is a state where people are accountable for their actions. At heart, that's the big picture for me. You make a choice, you live with it. In your words yesterday, caveat emptor. Take accountability out of the equation (i.e., eliminate Darwin's law) and evolution rolls backward. So you can live in the state with the people who don't want to be accountable, and who think the government can solve problems and impose solutions on just about anything. We have a name for this state already. Its called Illinois.

Find me any positive trend over the last 40 years in Illinois. Really, anything you can characterize as positive. Compare it to the national trend for the same thing. At best, Illinois is advancing at a slower rate than the national average. At worst, its retreating.

Part of the reason I'd like to live in the pro-Life state when this happens is because this is the boring state with very little crime, very little welfare, a strong job base, and neighbors who can walk around with a gun without shooting anyone. We have a name for this state already. Its called Virginia. It could use some neighborhood bars, but otherwise its okay.

1. Ok, answer the question "When does "life" begin?"

2. Now, tell me how your "begin" date is valid, but any other "begin" date offered is not. Uh uh uh... lets be careful - no biblical references or religious dogma. Strictly logic. Why is your "conception" date more valid than, say... the date when the fetus can survive out of the womb?

3. So, technology/progression of the species is not part of Darwin's law, eh? That women can now control their reproduction is somehow not an evolutionary event?

4. I never asked the govt to saolve any problems. You, my libertarian friend, are the one crying for govt regulation of others to fit your moral framework. I'm saying "give the people a choice". Can a libertarian ever argue against choice? Seems "inconsistent", doesn't it?

5. I have no idea what the hell you're saying in thos paragraphs about Virginia and Illinois. All I can offer is that I like both states, and really like Chicago.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
You're here. He's not. Go figure.

So we've all become fungible to you, eh? Now that's an intellecutally honest tact.

[Not Me]