A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
"The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons."

. . .

"We agree that the Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons."

. . .

" If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today -- and we do -- does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?"

. . .

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

. . .

"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. Every chemical and biological weapon that Iraq has or makes is a direct violation of the truce that ended the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Yet, Saddam Hussein has chosen to build and keep these weapons despite international sanctions, U.N. demands, and isolation from the civilized world."

. . .

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

. . .

"We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."

. . .

"Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."

. . .

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

. . .

"Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

. . .

"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon. "

-- W


This never gets old.

I'm just glad he got his priorities straight.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
by remains do you mean "has become"? Her record includes things before she became the junior senator from NY.

OK: "has been as a senator". I don't remember her being particularly whack-a-doo before, either, but I haven't exactly made a study of it.

Hank
"We need to eliminate the concept of the electoral college"

Hillary Clinton 12/00

Like I said, moderate and sensible. There are lots of moderate and sensible ideas that not all moderate and sensible people agree with.

Not to denigrate you by implying you are either, of course.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
I want to object to including Hillary in such company. If the Dems front Hil in '08, they may indeed be screwing themselves, but it would be because her name inspires unthinking blind rage in a significant segment of the population, not because she's on a par with Dean or, god forbid, Pelosi in her politics. She's actually done a great job as Senator, and she remains consistently moderate (not in itself a virtue, but as practiced by her it generally is) and sensible every time I've heard her open her mouth on policy issues, domestic or foreign.

I'd vote for her in a flash. And I think the Dems need lots more like her.

And she has quietly been moving to the center in preparation for 08. Got on the Armed Services Committee and staked out a very strident position on borders/immigration. If she runs, is it possible that she is not far enough left to win the nomination? I don't think so, and a Hillary presidency scares the shit out of me -

Of course, there is the little problem of her fundraising activities in the 2000 campaign.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Of course, there is the little problem of her fundraising activities in the 2000 campaign.

Invariably, a Hillary 2008 presidential campaign will have little to do with her positions as of '08, or her performance as a Senator. We will be treated to the Nineties Redux.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Gattigap
We will be treated to the Nineties Redux.

Sure. We'll know for sure that she's running when she puts out a cookbook.

Mmmm, cookies.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
I want to object to including Hillary in such company. If the Dems front Hil in '08, they may indeed be screwing themselves, but it would be because her name inspires unthinking blind rage in a significant segment of the population, not because she's on a par with Dean or, god forbid, Pelosi in her politics.

Couldn't agree more. Doesn't change the fact that she'd get trounced. She is eternally fucked perception-wise.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Invariably, a Hillary 2008 presidential campaign will have little to do with her positions as of '08, or her performance as a Senator. We will be treated to the Nineties Redux.

Do you think CBS will fake billing records?

[Replaced_Texan]

God fucking damnit.

I'm going to have to start saving my bloody tampons again.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Right- the Reps played on fear- "Bush lied- people died"- Farenheit 9/11 was the highest grossing doc. ever- but you guys are smart!

Do you truly believe that the GOP did not seek to use our various "wars" -- terror, Iraq, Afghanistan -- and their plans to protect the nation from threat to their political advantage in the 2004 elections?

Do you truly believe that part of that pitch was _not_ "There are many grave threats to our nation. We will keep you safe better than would the Democrats." {because they are spineless, limp-dicked civil libertarians}

S_A_M

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
God fucking damnit.

I'm going to have to start saving my bloody tampons again.

You can send them to Prince Charles. He and Camilla have a record of being into that sort of thing.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
do you really think that means anything. you realize the question was an unfair attempt for a political hatchet job, don't you? He is leading the country, he's supposed to go around apologizing every few months. I cannot remember a similar question being asked of any sitting president.

You were asleep from 1996-2000, I see.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You were asleep from 1996-2000, I see.

S_A_M

People asking "Would you name some mistakes you made on major national security issues?" Cite please.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Do you truly believe that the GOP did not seek to use our various "wars" -- terror, Iraq, Afghanistan -- and their plans to protect the nation from threat to their political advantage in the 2004 elections?

Do you truly believe that part of that pitch was _not_ "There are many grave threats to our nation. We will keep you safe better than would the Democrats." {because they are spineless, limp-dicked civil libertarians}

S_A_M

I was responding to Cold-brain's claim that the people who voted Rep. were dumb and led by hype, and the implicit claim that he and you et al were smart and not led by hype. You guys made the biggest bunch of nonsense the highest grossing "documentary" ever made, and now none of you will admit seeing it.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I was responding to Cold-brain's claim that the people who voted Rep. were dumb and led by hype, and the implicit claim that he and you et al were smart and not led by hype. You guys made the biggest bunch of nonsense the highest grossing "documentary" ever made, and now none of you will admit seeing it.

I really didn't see F 9/11.

And I really believe that a great deal of people were caused to be scared by the Bush administration's exaggerated claims of terrorism. C'mon Hank, you have to admit there was some fearmongering.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I was responding to Cold-brain's claim that the people who voted Rep. were dumb and led by hype, and the implicit claim that he and you et al were smart and not led by hype. You guys made the biggest bunch of nonsense the highest grossing "documentary" ever made, and now none of you will admit seeing it.

I saw the movie. I posted soon after that I didn't particularly care for it. Ty has stated on many occasions that he does not care for Michael Moore or his movies.

Now that you've heard our "lib-on-lib" criticisms of someone you feel is in a position of authority within the Democratic Party, let's hear your criticisms of W.