Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
However, look at America Votes. This organization is tied to every left-leaning group out there, including ACORN, which is accused of voter fraud in CO, OH and PA.

Something clearly ain't right - whatever it is.

This may clear up the "America Votes" thing, but there are still a lot of questions about registrations. http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2...es/02local.htm

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I was confused a bit myself.

Ok, here is the link to the story....

However, look at America Votes. This organization is tied to every left-leaning group out there, including ACORN, which is accused of voter fraud in CO, OH and PA.

Something clearly ain't right - whatever it is.

Your pal Josh is on the story:

• Fascinating. Employees of Voters Outreach of America, a GOP-funded voter registration outfit operating in Nevada, say they personally witnessed company employees shredding hundreds or even thousands of Democratic registrations. Now the same company (VOA) is being accused of destroying Democratic registration forms in Oregon.
  
  The head of VOA is Nathan Sproul, a Republican political consultant who used to be the executive director of the Arizona state Republican party.
  
  In gaining access to venues to register voters, he has apparently been claiming that his group is part of America Votes, a voter education and registration groups put together by a consortium of Democrat-leaning groups like the AFL-CIO, Emily's List, the Sierra Club and others.
  
  A quick scan of Nexis shows Sproul's outfit is also operating in West Virginia (see Charleston Gazette, August 20th), where they've already raised some controversy for misleading tactics if not destroying legally valid registrations.

TPM (links omitted).

But Hank says it's all OK because everyone does it.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Switching gears, for all of you that were so incensed by those "they'll take your Bibles" flyers, are you equally incensed by this:

• Democrats in a race for a state House seat in District 82, are circulating a flyer that shows a retarded child with President Bush’s face running in a track race. The headline says: “Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You’re Still Retarded.”... the flyers have been distributed for at least two weeks from Fitzhugh’s campaign office in Ripley, Tennessee. It also serves as the Kerry-Edwards headquarters.

Not really, because that flyer is a childish insult, not a lie about policy positions used as a scare tactic. Hell, Chinaski's used that same "joke" here on the PB. So, no, I'm neither "equally incensed" nor "incensed."

S_A_M

P.S. Plus, the flyer makes the author look like an idiot -- not Bush -- and are hardly likely to sway even a single undecided voter. The public humiliation and firing to come wil be more than enough "justice."

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Remember Guatemala? A US propped death squad killed nuns and missionaries there. Oh, or lets talk about the ITT deal in South America. Oh, and when did Saddam kill those babies? Before or after our aid to him ended? How about our favored trading partner China's nasty habit of selling the organs of people it executes for crimes as small as embezzlement.

So what are you saying? That because the US government has been involved in less than moral activities, we can never try to intervene anywhere in the world to stop the slaughter of innocents?

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
And lets not forget our good friends the Saudis, and their severed head collection, which they update weekly. When Shell Oil hanged Ken Saro Wiwa, did we condemn them? Fuck no.

Do you drive an SUV?

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
So, no, I'm neither "equally incensed" nor "incensed."

Thank you for making your partisan views so crystal clear.

Some of us may have been confused earlier.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Not really, because that flyer is a childish insult, not a lie about policy positions used as a scare tactic. Hell, Chinaski's used that same "joke" here on the PB. So, no, I'm neither "equally incensed" nor "incensed."

I suspect that, more accurately, it's all just childish hyperbole. The bible thing stems from the perception that religion is being banned in schools, at work, in courts and government, and even in the pledge, and so they hyperbolize that into a "ban". The retarded kid poster is, boy, he's dumb, just turned into the Special Olympics posters.

It's all garbage. Fairly equal garbage.

[SlaveNoMore]

Kerry's given up on Manny Ortez, Eddie Yost, and the rest of you:

John Kerry, while speaking in Taylor, Michigan: "We’ve been waiting since 1918 for the Boston Red Sox to win the World Series, and . . . if I had a choice between the White House and the World Series this year, I’m going to take the White House. How's that?"

[mmm3587]

Suddenly all you neoconservatives are claiming that the atrocities of Hussein are the reason we went to war in Iraq. Just to clarify, which of the following are you saying:

(a) We knew about the atrocities, and it was part of the reason for going to war in Iraq, but we would still have gone to war anyway because of WMD;

(b) We knew about the atrocities, and it was part of the reason for going to war in Iraq, but we would still have gone to war anyway because of the relationship with AQ;

(c) The atrocities in Iraq were the worst in the world, and it makes sense to go to preemptive war with the state committing the worst atrocities;

(d) The atrocities in Iraq weren't the worst or among the worst, but we were going to war there anyway, so it's good that we can take care of these atrocities; and/or

(e) Whatever else you can say to clarify your position...

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Switching gears, for all of you that were so incensed by those "they'll take your Bibles" flyers, are you equally incensed by this:

• Democrats in a race for a state House seat in District 82, are circulating a flyer that shows a retarded child with President Bush’s face running in a track race. The headline says: “Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You’re Still Retarded.”... the flyers have been distributed for at least two weeks from Fitzhugh’s campaign office in Ripley, Tennessee. It also serves as the Kerry-Edwards headquarters.

Story and picture of the offensive flyer found here: http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=1951

Yes.

Though, I'm guessing that unlike the "take your bibles" pitch, this isn't a DNC-backed creation. Like their counterparts across the street, the DNC is sophisticated enough to know that smears only work in color, not in this amateurish, grainy black-and-white shit.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I was going to say this, except without the NAACP part. I think its more than just the NAACP trying to keep blacks shackled to the Democratic party.

And trying to keep your truth of four simultaneous 24 hour days within a single 24 hour rotation of Earth from them. Damn NAACP. They are stupid and evil.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

No one who's been watching this race thinks turn-out might be, say, higher than recent elections, eh?

• Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker, citing vote-fraud concerns, is publicly balking at a City of Milwaukee request for almost 260,000 additional ballots in anticipation of high turnout for the Nov. 2 presidential election.
  
  Mayor Tom Barrett blasted Walker's stance, and Common Council President Willie Hines Jr. immediately joined in, saying it was an attempt to suppress the central-city vote.
  
  "I'm going to lay this at the footsteps of the county if there aren't enough ballots in the city," said Barrett.
  
  Barrett said that the 679,000 ballots the county had agreed to print were less than the amount prepared for the presidential election in 2000 as well as for the the gubernatorial race in 2002. He and the city's top election official said that the city requested 938,000 ballots from the county, which, by law, pays for and prints ballots.

link

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Suddenly all you neoconservatives are claiming that the atrocities of Hussein are the reason we went to war in Iraq. Just to clarify, which of the following are you saying:

(a) We knew about the atrocities, and it was part of the reason for going to war in Iraq, but we would still have gone to war anyway because of WMD;

(b) We knew about the atrocities, and it was part of the reason for going to war in Iraq, but we would still have gone to war anyway because of the relationship with AQ;

(c) The atrocities in Iraq were the worst in the world, and it makes sense to go to preemptive war with the state committing the worst atrocities;

(d) The atrocities in Iraq weren't the worst or among the worst, but we were going to war there anyway, so it's good that we can take care of these atrocities; and/or

(e) Whatever else you can say to clarify your position...

(f) Saddam Hussein was a bad man. Bush attacked him, so Bush is good. Kerry is running against Bush, so Kerry, like Hussein, is bad.

[mmm3587]

While we're at it, how should we determine which preemptive wars to enter into? Which of the following conditions are sufficient? Which are nececssary for one reasoning for preemptive war, but not sufficient for that reasoning?

(a) State A will probably attack us, and has the WMD to do it.

(b) State A would attack us if it had the WMD, but it doesn't have the WMD, but we think they do.

(c) State A attacked us, and State B was friends with them, so we attack State B.

(d) State A commits atrocities.

(d) State A commits more atrocities than anyone.

(e) State A commits religious atrocities.

(f) Our President's father kind of went to war with State A to protect our ally.

Also please comment on how resources weigh in. Should we get into WWIII with 12 countries because of all the atrocity in the world? What about if we have oil interests there?

[mmm3587]

The two (d)s are to sex it up a little bit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Please. It's not like you guys gave a rip about these atrocities before he invaded Kuwait.


Donald Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein in happier times

Yeh, remember when we rallied those Kurds to rise up against Hussein and then... what did we do next? I can't recall. Oh, yeh. We left them in the desert to get slaughtered. Good times, good times.