Politics: A new beginning

Posted by Tyrone at 6:54


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bridge of love
Ty, stop you're killing me. Go home.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Look at Penske, he's the only other person in the room. I haven't socked since we left Infirmation -- it's too much work.

Posted by Penske at 7:00

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Look at Penske, he's the only other person in the room. I haven't socked since we left Infirmation -- it's too much work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I have a feeling Plated lurks here. Probably him. If so, let me point out, he still owes me a dinner.

Posted by ltl at 7:01


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Look at Penske, he's the only other person in the room. I haven't socked since we left Infirmation -- it's too much work.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excuse me? On leagl's behalf too.

Posted by Tyrone at 7:03


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ltl/fb
Excuse me? On leagl's behalf too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My deep and sincere apologies. When I downloaded the page to which I was responding, neither of you had made an appearance yet.

And just because y'all are here, I have a special treat -- empirical proof that FOX News bites. . .

Posted by ltl at 7:04



In a way, this is like when you've been working on a document all day long but you haven't saved it to the magical IT permanent savings bank computer yet and your computer crashes and it's gone and you have to recreate it all over again.

To get back above 1k I'll have to start posting on the TX boards or something. I'll be here all fucking weekend. Sucky. And I can't even bill for it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Someone is really working hard to keep me from saying that FOX News bites. But it does. "The extent of Americans' misperceptions vary significantly depending on their source of news. Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely than average to have misperceptions. Those who receive most of their news from NPR or PBS are less likely to have misperceptions. These variations cannot simply be explained as a result of differences in the demographic characteristics of each audience, because these variations can also be found when comparing the demographic subgroups of each audience."

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop

Yay! I'm only 23% misinformed! Yay!

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Thanks for that link, Ty . . its nice to have empirircal evidence that Fox News, in addition to being "fair and balanced" apparently either attracts a particular breed of idiot or systematically creates false perceptions in its viewers, or both. I will not speculate as to the correct answer.

Anyway, I was just getting ready to wade back into the fray last night when the Board dissappeared -- even though I am still smarting from the sting of that shrewd cut delivered by none other than 'Bridge of Love". Let me tell you, when a poster of that caliber smacks you down by saying that a post of yours is "retarded" and the "stupidest post ever" because it suggested that news organizations were driven by a search for ratings -- that enough to make you rethink your entire posting career.

Back to my prior topic -- the Kay report:

Club -- I don't think that my post misrepresented the report at all -- no evidence yet found of current CW or BW and only the "most rudimentary" nuclear program. That's the way both the Washington Post and the Washington Times reported it -- although the differing emphases in their headlines were quite striking. The Times trumpeted the evidence of deception, but noted in a sub-headline that "Weapons Continue to Elude the U.S. Team". The Post just started out with "No Evidence of Weapons Found"

Indeed one vial -- or even many vials of toxins -- do not constitute BW in any meaningful military sense of the term -- alhough they could still be of use to terrorists.

Sure, there is lots of evidence that Hussein was a lying, deceiving sack of crap who was working to be able to have WMD again some day -- But that ain't the picture that was sold to the public. Thus, I think that it will hurt the Administration a lot if that's all we ever find.

Further to that point -- Bilmore -- I remembered what Bush said on the threat . I knew he didn't say "imminent" and I'm not jumping around yelling that "Bush lied" -- but I think that most of the American public would have views and perceptions similar to tht of dtb/fb. Maybe they all watch FOX News. That is why the news coverage focused on the lack of current WMD -- and that will hurt Bush.

Here are some examples -- Cheney -- the leading Iraq hawk -- said on TV that Iraq had "reconstituted" its nuclear program. There is absolutely NO evidence that such a thing is true. It makes me wonder if he was lying, or what he was thinking. Kay's report estimates 5-7 years for Iraq to have reconstituted its nuclear program. Of course, the White House can't trust Kay because he's from the CIA.

On March 17, 2003 -- in his televised ultimatum to Hussein-- Bush said "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to posses and conceal some o the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Bush in May, 2003 -- "we've found the weapons of mass destruction" -- afteer the empty portable labs turned up.

Now -- here is the best spin Bush can put on the initial report 10/03/03: "The report states that Saddam Hussein had clandestine network of biological laboratories, a live strain of [the]deadly agent botulinum, sophisticated oncealment efforts and advanced design work on prohibited longer range missiles."

I've got to tell you that empty labs, plus lots of illicit design work and concealing stuff from the inspectors ain't exactly the package sold to the American public and the world. GWB must feel a bit like he ordered from the back of the comic book and his Sea Monkeys were DOA. Of course, he falls back on -- "Well, anyway, he was a dangerous and evil sack of shit who violatd U.N. resolutions and who needed to die." I'd have bought that logic initially, but I doubt most Americans would have. We'll see how it flies in an environment when Lt. Gen. Sanchez said this week that h U.S. military is projecting to continue to lose 3-6 KIA and 40 WIA per week going forward.

Plus, to tie in other threads -- no evidence o support claim of uranium from Africa. No evidence to support the Brit. claim re CW ready to deploy in 45 minutes. Hmmmm.

S_A_M:flag:

[bridge of love]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Yay! I'm only 23% misinformed! Yay!

google is part of public broadcasting?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Back to my prior topic -- the Kay report:

Good post, S_A_M. If the Kay report had been favorable for the Administration, it would not have been released on a Friday.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Someone is really working hard to keep me from saying that FOX News bites. But it does. "The extent of Americans' misperceptions vary significantly depending on their source of news. Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely than average to have misperceptions. Those who receive most of their news from NPR or PBS are less likely to have misperceptions. These variations cannot simply be explained as a result of differences in the demographic characteristics of each audience, because these variations can also be found when comparing the demographic subgroups of each audience."

Perhaps the mispreceptions are on the part of NPR and the like.

[sgtclub]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Club -- I don't think that my post misrepresented the report at all -- no evidence yet found of current CW or BW and only the "most rudimentary" nuclear program. That's the way both the Washington Post and the Washington Times reported it -- although the differing emphases in their headlines were quite striking. The Times trumpeted the evidence of deception, but noted in a sub-headline that "Weapons Continue to Elude the U.S. Team". The Post just started out with "No Evidence of Weapons Found"[QUOTE]

I think I responded to most of this before the board went down, so I'll wait to see if it is retored. Did you read the actual report or just the Wapo and WT accounts?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Restorer
Posted by ltl/fb at 6:47

it's probably for the best that the post that could be interpreted (but was not intended) as a proposition from me to sgtclub is lost to recorded history.

Unless he printed it to take home and smooch -- or whatever.

Whatever you say - you sound like one of those school yard girls that use to chase me around the playground. "I love you, I hate you, I love you, I hate you . . ."

I did print it, but didn't take it home. Hung it up in my office. Might have it framed.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sgtclub
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Club -- I don't think that my post misrepresented the report at all -- no evidence yet found of current CW or BW and only the "most rudimentary" nuclear program. That's the way both the Washington Post and the Washington Times reported it -- although the differing emphases in their headlines were quite striking. The Times trumpeted the evidence of deception, but noted in a sub-headline that "Weapons Continue to Elude the U.S. Team". The Post just started out with "No Evidence of Weapons Found"

I think I responded to most of this before the board went down, so I'll wait to see if it is retored. Did you read the actual report or just the Wapo and WT accounts?

Actually, my most recent post was responding to your response. I've read excerpts of the reports -- as well as those you posted and lots of news coverage.

As my post suggested, though, the way people view the report and the result is at leaat as important as the reality. For example, the most recent cover of The Economist (for gosh sakes) -- a firm supporter of the war and not really "liberal" at all in the modern sense of the word -- has the following headline over a photo of Bush and Blair -- 'Wielders of mass deception?"

the first Leader in that edition (10/4/03) has the following header and subheader -- "Wielders of mass deception? There was a good case for deposing Saddam Hussein, but Britain and America stretched it."

I'll give you the first few sentences:

"The road to war with Iraq was paved with arguments, good and bad. Among the many good ones were Saddam Hussein's serial invasions of his neighbours, his neglect and disregard for his own people, and his recidivist disregard for the umpteen UN resolutions passed in the hope of domesticating him. But there were some less good arguments advanced by the governments that ousted him. George Bush and Tony Blair, it now appears, exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD), This is not just a negligible footnote in the history of Iraq's conquest and reconstruction -- just so much propoganda under the bridge. In the eyes of the world, especially the Arab world, the flimsiness of some of the claims about Mr. Hussein's arsenal has helped to make a legitimate conflict seem otherwise."

This sort of analysis stings, and I think that it will get worse for Bush -- especially if the economy doesn't get lots better in terms of employment fairly soon. At a minimum -- they're playing defense now.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Perhaps the mispreceptions are on the part of NPR and the like.

Yep, and maybe Rush Limbaugh has done all of football a public service by resurrecting a question that ceased being relevant and topical 10+ years back -- the success and abilities of black quarterbacks, but I doubt it.


Rush couldn't make it in a business where empirical reality with lots of stistics existed to measure against his b.s.

Yep, given the performances of Vick, McNair, Culpepper, Warren Moon, Doug Williams, etc. the media had to pump up Donovan McNabb because they are desperate for some black quarterback to succeed somewhere, some time. Thanks for telling us the straight story, you junkie.