Politics: A new beginning - Page 200

Not Me · 12-12-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
So what can we give them?

We give them enough already.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
These contracts are peanuts compared to the dollars involved in the debt relief.

Agreed, but I think that the the creditors are also a bit nervous about the Iraqi's declaring the debt void or just defaulting.

Tyrone Slothrop · 12-12-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I'm thinking that an "in" with the developing Iraqi government will be worth a lot more down the road then the simple value of the present recon contracts. France is being shouldered out of one of its largest and most lucrative world customers, and not simply for the present.

Not only are we going to introduce democracy, we're going to instill in the new (democratic) Iraqi government a distaste for the French! Awesome!

Pls. compare France's annual trade with us and compare to its annual trade with Iraq, and then reconsider your post. Or, don't.

Tyrone Slothrop · 12-12-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
We give them enough already.

You and I probably agree on that one, but since Baker is trying to ensure that W. gets re-elected, he probably has a different view.

sgtclub · 12-12-2003, 04:30 PM

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/79306|top|12-12-2003::10:24|reuters.html

[talks re EU constitution break down]

Not Me · 12-12-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/79306|top|12-12-2003::10:24|reuters.html

[talks re EU constitution break down]

Europe is a disaster. The socialist cradle-to-grave welfare states are going to strangle their economies as their population ages and they find themselves with no way to pay for these entitlements. It's alot like the situation in California. Too many entitlements leading to high tax rates leading to inability to attract and keep businesses, leading to loss of jobs, leading to further erosion of the tax base.

bilmore · 12-12-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Pls. compare France's annual trade with us and compare to its annual trade with Iraq, and then reconsider your post. Or, don't.

I have no idea what you mean by this, paired as it was with some inane kiddie taunt.

Tyrone Slothrop · 12-12-2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I have no idea what you mean by this, paired as it was with some inane kiddie taunt.

Sorry. You said that Iraq was one of France's largest and most lucrative world customers. I think you're a little off. OK, a lot off.

bilmore · 12-12-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Sorry. You said that Iraq was one of France's largest and most lucrative world customers. I think you're a little off. OK, a lot off.

Ah. Now I see.

Are you, perchance, looking only at the numbers they have chosen to release to the world? My understanding was that they have been fairly well shown to have done quite a bit of "quiet" business with Iraq over the last ten years.

OK, A huge bit.

Tyrone Slothrop · 12-12-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Ah. Now I see.

Are you, perchance, looking only at the numbers they have chosen to release to the world? My understanding was that they have been fairly well shown to have done quite a bit of "quiet" business with Iraq over the last ten years.

OK, A huge bit.

Even so, think about the relative size of our economy -- or of France's neighbors in Europe -- and of Iraq's. And Iraq is not a rich country. There was surely a fair amount of state spending in some specific areas (the aptly named Mirage jet comes to mind), but in the big scheme of things, not so much.

Secret_Agent_Man · 12-12-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Oh I see. If you want to negotiate you should first take a hard position and the next day tell everyone that you didn't really mean it, because, after all, credibility really doesn't matter in negotations? You are obviously not a transactional lawyer.

You're right -- I'm not a transactional lawyer, and I've freely admitted to being a poor negotiator. However, I think we should not have taken this particular hard position in the first place -- for the reasons I enunciated. (And, apparently, many senior Republicans agree with me mirabile dictu!)

Credibility is important, but at some point you've got to bend over and take off the golf spikes if you're stepping on your dick. The problem is, I think that som of our policy-makers never figure out where the pain is coming from.

S_A_M

Sexual Harassment Panda · 12-12-2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Ah. Now I see.

Are you, perchance, looking only at the numbers they have chosen to release to the world? My understanding was that they have been fairly well shown to have done quite a bit of "quiet" business with Iraq over the last ten years.

OK, A huge bit.

I don't know much about this "quiet" business they've done - seems like an intriguing area. Do you have a cite for this?

bilmore · 12-12-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I don't know much about this "quiet" business they've done - seems like an intriguing area. Do you have a cite for this?

What I was talking about was the allegations (rampant for some time) concerning their arms, chemical, and other nefarious category dealings with SH. I can probably cite to the allegations, but you likely know what I mean with this clarification, and, because they're allegations, I doubt I could cite any published data setting out the exact levels and transactions.

Atticus Grinch · 12-12-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
What I was talking about was the allegations (rampant for some time) concerning their arms, chemical, and other nefarious category dealings with SH. I can probably cite to the allegations, but you likely know what I mean with this clarification, and, because they're allegations, I doubt I could cite any published data setting out the exact levels and transactions.

Yeah, I heard the French were charging Saddam $2.64 a gallon for gas. And that mofo is a petroleum exporting country!

Everybody says the French are a bunch of pussies, but that's straight up gangsta.

bilmore · 12-12-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Yeah, I heard the French were charging Saddam $2.64 a gallon for gas. And that mofo is a petroleum exporting country!

Wasn't that coming out of OUR $87B?

(Haven't had a chance to read about this one yet, so can't even get snarky about it. The humanity . . . )

Sidd Finch · 12-12-2003, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Credibility is important, but at some point you've got to bend over and take off the golf spikes if you're stepping on your dick.

I've really missed this board.