Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I believe you need a new TV.

How Orwellian of you!

The floor-manager was an ugly little devil, under-sized, with very square shoulders and a spiky grey moustache. He’d just pounced on her about something, some mistake in the change evidently, and was going for her with a voice like a circular saw.

‘Ho, no! Course you couldn’t count it! Course you couldn’t. Too much trouble, that’d be. Ho, no!’

Before I could stop myself I’d caught the girl’s eye. It wasn’t so nice for her to have a fat middle-aged bloke with a red face looking on while she took her cursing. I turned away as quickly as I could and pretended to be interested in some stuff at the next counter, curtain rings or something. He was on to her again. He was one of those people who turn away and then suddenly dart back at you, like a dragon-fly.

‘Course you couldn’t count it! Doesn’t matter to you if we’re two bob out. Doesn’t matter at all. What’s two bob to you? Couldn’t ask you to go to the trouble of counting it properly. Ho, no! Nothing matters ’ere ’cept your convenience. You don’t think about others, do you?’

Coming Up For Air

--George Orwell

[bilmore]

Does anyone else think that, with ten minutes of consideration, they could have come up with questions that might actually get some sparks going here?

This is fairly lame and boring. Maybe CBS is scared to death at this point to come across wrong.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by bilmore
Does anyone else think that, with ten minutes of consideration, they could have come up with questions that might actually get some sparks going here?

This is fairly lame and boring. Maybe CBS is scared to death at this point to come across wrong.

I just posted the same thing someplace else. It's a boring as hell debate, partially because all of this territory has already been covered.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
Does anyone else think that, with ten minutes of consideration, they could have come up with questions that might actually get some sparks going here?

This is fairly lame and boring. Maybe CBS is scared to death at this point to come across wrong.

I've missed a lot of the action, but that flu vaccine question was a huge buzzkill.

And Tony Soprano is a character on the HBO drama, The Sopranos, particularly loved by swing voters in Florida and Missouri.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I just posted the same thing someplace else. It's a boring as hell debate, partially because all of this territory has already been covered.

Here's what someone else just said:

"I'd like to hear Bush say, "I'm going to nuke the next motherf'er who even looks at our country sidewise - twice if he's in the French cabinet." And I'd like to hear Kerry say, "I'm going to tax you bastards back to the Stone Age." Something, anything, to generate some sparks."

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by bilmore
Does anyone else think that, with ten minutes of consideration, they could have come up with questions that might actually get some sparks going here?

This is fairly lame and boring. Maybe CBS is scared to death at this point to come across wrong.

I think these guys are keeping their gloves on in response to some of these questions. Only as an example that I'd use for my side, Bush should have completely tied Edwards into health costs and mentioned something about how much he's made off of other people's insurance. And I'd place it as a statement directly to American workers, tying (duh!) asbestos costs in. He has no one to lose by doing this, and many to gain.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
And I'd place it as a statement directly to American workers, tying (duh!) asbestos costs in. He has no one to lose by doing this, and many to gain.

I dunno - "Unlike the current president, I will fight with all my heart for the poor worker who lies gasping for his last painful breaths in the throes of mesothelioma - that horrid, horrid cancer - that he contracted because some big corporation decided that profit was more important than stopping the use of deadly products that they knew were deadly fifty years ago! This president has worked to deny that dying worker and his family and his cute, fuzzy little children - I love children, by the way, Bob - even the small amounts of monies left over after the trial lawyers pull their fees . . . I mean, even the small amounts of money he might win from those evil companies to support him in his last, painful days."

[sgtclub]

It's "idea" not "idear"

[SlaveNoMore]

y sgtclub
Can someone who is objective weigh in?

Yes, the good guys are currently in the lead.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Yes, the good guys are currently in the lead.

Fox news is calling it for Bush. And they were harsh on Bush the first debate. Bill Kristol called it a slaughter by Bush.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me
Fox news is calling it for Bush. And they were harsh on Bush the first debate. Bill Kristol called it a slaughter by Bush.

But only wonks call it by substance, and they tend to already believe one side of the substance to begin with. There are very few expert neutrals.

On style, which I think rules here, I called it a tie.

It's gonna be a long three weeks.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
But only wonks call it by substance, and they tend to already believe one side of the substance to begin with. There are very few expert neutrals.

On style, which I think rules here, I called it a tie.

It's gonna be a long three weeks.

Well, they were talking quite a bit about style and there was a focus group that they were commenting on, too. Apparently, the stuff Kerrey said about Mary Cheney being gay went over really bad with the focus group. They thought it was not sincere.

When edwards did it, I thought he was not sincere, either.

FYI - I only listened to part of the debate as I was working out. I will watch the repeat tonight and see if I agree with the wonks.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

The CBS poll of undecided is calling it for Kerry, 39% to 25% (rest scoring it a draw).

More importantly, they're pointing out that the remaining uncommitted generally give Bush poor approval ratings, but also say they don't know Kerry. That tells me Kerry does better simply by doing well. The flip side is that Bush may have done so badly in debate 1, and in the subsequent fallout, that showing he can be coherent wins him back some ground.

I heard a couple of facts I had questions about on each side, but right now I think Bush is going to do worse on the fact check side - he blew his own quote.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Can someone who is objective weigh in?

Note: I called the first debate for Kerry and the second a draw.

No one here is objective. Here's my view; I'd call it pretty much a draw. (But I might just go follow Slave's poll links and spin away.) The candidates both looked tired (esp. Kerry), and neither was as good as during the second debate.

I think your statement came too early, club. I missed the first 15 minutes, but thought Kerry generally matched him, and heard some analysis that said Bush was stronger early on.

BTW -- Bush did have spittle in the corner of his mouth for a while (as SS noted, but that's irrelevant), and was a bit too quick with the "heh, hehs" and the zingers for my taste. That may reflect my personal views of Bush's style, but at the same time I wish Kerry had been more animated. I don't think it hurt Kerry, which is what I cared about.

S_A_M

P.S. On missed zingers: After the second time Bush said "I came to Washington to solve problems!" I dearly wanted Kerry to respond with: "Well, Mr. President, please let us all know the first time you solve one."

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Bush not seeming brain dead is a win because its coming back from the 1st one. a tie is a win. he'll regain what he lost.

You said that after the second debate, and it hasn't happened yet.