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Tyrone Slothrop · 03-11-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Bullshit. Atticus has a good point. And I thought the same thing when I read the quote from McCain at first ("Oh, shit. The jesus nuts have gotten to him.")

But then I realized, balanced against everything else in the man's largely moderate posture, this is clearly a gaffe.

Or he didn't want to piss anyone off.

But the man is not a moderate. Get over that.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-11-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
So you are basically saying Slave has no credibility (now that Rudy is out of the race)? Got it. Not sure if Diane posts anything critical about McCain either.

I have seen both Slave criticize his own candidates, and Diane seems to criticize all sides as well. So does Ty, but I haven't seen him do it much lately. It's terending toward attacking McCain, under the guise of posting links to "news."

I just get frustrated when I see repeated cites to "news" which criticize one candidate over another. When Slave posts GOP talking points, I'm the first to attack him. I do it all the time.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-11-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I have seen both Slave criticize his own candidates, and Diane seems to criticize all sides as well. So does Ty, but I haven't seen him do it much lately. It's terending toward attacking McCain, under the guise of posting links to "news."

I just get frustrated when I see repeated cites to "news" which criticize one candidate over another. When Slave posts GOP talking points, I'm the first to attack him. I do it all the time.

As I said before, show me the long list of times I've criticized McCain. I think he's a weaker candidate than most here do, but that's not a criticism.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-11-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Or he didn't want to piss anyone off.

But the man is not a moderate. Get over that.

OK. Fine. But he's a fine candidate, as is Obama. You don't see me posting "news" taking apart Obama on little points, do you? On the balance, I think he's principled and decent. I don't agree with his policies, or what I guess they will be, but I also don't think he's worth demonizing for a gaffe his wife made, or the fact that his preacher has some less than savory views. He's bigger than that, and in the same way, John McCain is a hell of a lot bigger and better than one gaffe exploited by a NYTimes reporter.

And you know I'm not singling out this instance. Slave drove me nuts with that nonsense he posted about how Michelle's comment was a big deal. It wasn't, and that kind of "gotcha" journalism and advocacy is what's ruining politics in this country. Let these two fight over the isssues and who knows? Maybe we'll actually educate some voters, instead of sending cattle to the polls based on lies, spin and peripheral nonsense.

Yes, I am wildly naive and idealistic.

Diane_Keaton · 03-11-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I gave you a link with all I know. And it's not such a big deal, except (apparently) to you.

You posted it Ty. And then you called me a wingnut for being critical of it. Now, when you go back to find out more about it, you see it happened (allegedly) a year ago and you can't even find out who the reporter is b/c none of the blogs containing the "transcript" mention it. Sir, I think you owe me an apology. And then I'm fine with kissing and making up.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-11-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
You posted it Ty. And then you called me a wingnut for being critical of it.

No. I called you a wingnut for dismissing it because the NYT reported it.

Quote:

Now, when you go back to find out more about it, you see it happened (allegedly) a year ago and you can't even find out who the reporter is b/c none of the blogs containing the "transcript" mention it. Sir, I think you owe me an apology. And then I'm fine with kissing and making up.

I knew all that when I posted it, and you did too if you clicked my link. You are always welcome to click my link. So let's kiss and make up.

eta: Because I strive to be a mensch, I Googled the exchange and found this, written by Adam Nagourney:

Quote:

SOMEWHERE in NORTHERN IOWA — The unthinkable has happened. Senator John McCain met a question, while sitting with reporters on his bus as it rumbled through Iowa today, that he couldn’t – or perhaps wouldn’t – answer.

Did he support the distribution of taxpayer-subsidized condoms in Africa to fight the transmission of H.I.V.?

What followed was a long series of awkward pauses, glances up to the ceiling and the image of one of Mr. McCain’s aides, standing off to the back, urgently motioning his press secretary to come to Mr. McCain’s side.

The upshot was that Mr. McCain said he did not know this subject well, did not know his position on it, and relied on the advice of Senator Tom Coburn, a physician and Republican from Oklahoma.

His press secretary, Brian Jones, later reported that Mr. McCain had a record of voting against using government money to finance the distribution of condoms.

All this took place on the second day of the reprise of the “Straight Talk Express” bus trips that Mr. McCain made a central part of his campaign in 2000. It also comes as Mr. McCain has eagerly been trying to ease strains with social conservatives in the party who, for the most part, do not support using government money to pay for condoms.

A transcript of the encounter follows. (Weaver is John Weaver, his senior adviser, and Brian is Mr. Jones, his press secretary):

Reporter: “Should U.S. taxpayer money go to places like Africa to fund contraception to prevent AIDS?”

Mr. McCain: “Well I think it’s a combination. The guy I really respect on this is Dr. Coburn. He believes – and I was just reading the thing he wrote– that you should do what you can to encourage abstinence where there is going to be sexual activity. Where that doesn’t succeed, than he thinks that we should employ contraceptives as well. But I agree with him that the first priority is on abstinence. I look to people like Dr. Coburn. I’m not very wise on it.”

(Mr. McCain turns to take a question on Iraq, but a moment later looks back to the reporter who asked him about AIDS.)

Mr. McCain: “I haven’t thought about it. Before I give you an answer, let me think about. Let me think about it a little bit because I never got a question about it before. I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

This went on for a few more moments until a reporter from the Chicago Tribune broke in and asked Mr. McCain about the weight of a pig that he saw at the Iowa State Fair last year.

I do not believe I have anything else to say about this.

Adder · 03-11-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
This is the best you have? Really? Sex ed?

It's kind of amazing though, isn't it? I mean, this is a topic that gets debated all the time. And he doesn't even have a single thought on it?

Adder · 03-11-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Silly.

He did, and dismissed them all out of turn.

Recall. The Rezko matter was nonsense. The "re-tooled" autobiography was creative license. Being on the FARC computer wasn't his fault. Refusing to wear a flag pin is "haute couture".

You get the picture.

Come on, Slave, the FARC thing was preposterous. Some unknown "gringos" said what they thought Obama's position would be, and FARC wrote it down. Those gringos could have been you and Spanky for all we know.

As for Rezko, I haven't followed it that closely, but so far there seems to be no connection to Obama for any wrongdoing. If that changes, well, fine, but the fact that he knows and even was friendly with a corrupt politician can hardly be a disqualifier. If it was, who would we elect?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 03-11-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adder
Come on, Slave, the FARC thing was preposterous. Some unknown "gringos" said what they thought Obama's position would be, and FARC wrote it down. Those gringos could have been you and Spanky for all we know.

As for Rezko, I haven't followed it that closely, but so far there seems to be no connection to Obama for any wrongdoing. If that changes, well, fine, but the fact that he knows and even was friendly with a corrupt politician can hardly be a disqualifier. If it was, who would we elect?

The list of manufactured issues is humorous. They don't have anything to throw at him so they just make stuff up. None of it has enough credibility for McCain to sully himself by discussing it - but, no worry, the usual suspects will do the dirty work.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 03-11-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
No. I called you a wingnut for dismissing it because the NYT reported it.

I knew all that when I posted it, and you did too if you clicked my link. You are always welcome to click my link. So let's kiss and make up.

eta: Because I strive to be a mensch, I Googled the exchange and found this, written by Adam Nagourney:

I do not believe I have anything else to say about this.

He didn't want to answer a simple factual question because it's not popular to be in the reality based community.

Yes, condoms stop the spread of aids.

No denying that.

Aren't any of you McCain supporters just a little embarassed that a Republican isn't allowed to admit this fact?

Hank Chinaski · 03-11-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I do not believe I have anything else to say about this.

what have you said? of the 800 issues before a candidate he got asked about the 735th most important. he had the sense to say I really don't know offhand what my position is. see, here's the thing, real people don't have an opinion on every thing. when you get to be a candidate you have to form "an opinion" on lots of things you don't give a good shit about. that he can't remember all 800 on a turnaround actually shows that he is honest. Hillary would have spun some gibberish that didn't say anything rather than admit she knows her campaign has a position, or will form one, but she couldn't remember it.

And for you, of all socks, to criticize someone for not having his own opinion on an issue is extraordinary.

edit: Obama of course would have promised that aids will be cured by the end of his first term, so the issue will become moot.

Hank Chinaski · 03-11-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Yes. I was not a fan of any of the Republican candidates. I have posted before that I disagree strongly with their positions on pretty much any social policy (their anti-choice stance, wanting to throw out illegal aliens in 90 day, among others).

actually I believe these positions apply to every R here.