Politics As Usual - Page 205

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 06-25-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Really? Don't you think that most people "lawyer up" knowing - as your hourly Dick Wolf production will tell you - that calling for a lawyer immediately ties the hands of Briscoe and Green?

Yet remarkably we continue to see litigation, at least in the real world, about whether a confession was coerced.

sgtclub · 06-25-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Do you think the current manual says spill the beans?

No, but if I was in captivity, I would be a lot less willing to sing if I new the extent of what I would have to endure, then if I didn't.

Quote:

It's a lot bigger picture than just al qaeda and comes down to a debate on whether tortute is morally justified in order to extract what is believed to be important information. I now know you're a utilitarian, so I certainly understand where you're coming from. But international rules against torture don't benefit only our enemies.

I'm not arguing (here) for torture. I am arguing for the secrecy of our tactics.

Quote:

(also, is "al qaeda" a GC signatory? If not, can't we wack off heads just like they do?)

No and legally yes.

ltl/fb · 06-25-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Really? Don't you think that most people "lawyer up" knowing - as your hourly Dick Wolf production will tell you - that calling for a lawyer immediately ties the hands of Briscoe and Green?

Holy cow, all those people in Iraq have the right to remain silent, the right to a lawyer, etc?

Go figure.

SlaveNoMore · 06-25-2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

ltl/fb
Holy cow, all those people in Iraq have the right to remain silent, the right to a lawyer, etc?

Go figure.

Put down the Egg McMuffin. Go back and read. Try again.

Atticus Grinch · 06-25-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm not arguing (here) for torture. I am arguing for the secrecy of our tactics.

Fortunately, the image we have projected around the world of the utter hypocrisy between our professed Christian values and ideals, and those we put into practice, still leaves a little mystery for the average detainee --- the poor bastard doesn't know whether he's in the hands of George "I don't condone torture" Bush's America, or Donald "Why only force them to stand for four hours?" Rumsfeld's.

Gattigap · 06-25-2004, 01:51 PM

These are fun days for the White House press corps. Today's missive by Dan Froomkin of WaPo runs with the theme that things are getting a little tense these days at the White House, what with Bush enduring 70 minutes of questioning from the DOJ about the Plame scandal, Cheney providing an anatomically impossible (at least for Democrats) suggestion to Sen. Leahy on the Senate floor, and then Bush getting snippy with journalists later that day.

It's hard to see the fireworks from the written page so much, but at least there was this:

Quote:

Bush also gave an interview to a Turkish journalist yesterday.

Reuters reports: "President Bush pledged to work with Turkey and the new Iraqi government against Turkish Kurd militants in northern Iraq in an interview with Turkish television aired Friday."

Here's the transcript of the interview from NTV-MSNBC. But it's in Turkish. For instance, here's an excerpt:

"NTV: Sayin Baskan, gelecekte bir gün, daha çok vaktiniz oldugunda sizi Türkiye'ye tatil için bekliyoruz.

"Bush: Evet. Bir gün çok isterim. Ama su anda biraz mesgulüm."

Sounds sort of testy to me.

Gattigap

Replaced_Texan · 06-25-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Fortunately, the image we have projected around the world of the utter hypocrisy between our professed Christian values and ideals, and those we put into practice, still leaves a little mystery for the average detainee --- the poor bastard doesn't know whether he's in the hands of George "I don't condone torture" Bush's America, or Donald "Why only force them to stand for four hours?" Rumsfeld's.

Right. If I were held by the military/CIA/anti-terrorism black ops group/contractor, I'm assuming that they have cattle prodsm, know how to use them and will use them if I'm not cooperative as hell. I also assume that they know how to appropriately deflect any inquiries on why they have cattle prods and know how to use them. Of course, I'd sing like a canary once they showed me the rimless toilet, so I may not be the model terrorist in captivity.

Atticus Grinch · 06-25-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Bush: Evet. Bir gün çok isterim. Ama su anda biraz mesgulüm.

Oh, shit. When Bush starts in with the Klingon, you know it's time for bad cop/bad cop.

Sidd Finch · 06-25-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Really? Don't you think that most people "lawyer up" knowing - as your hourly Dick Wolf production will tell you - that calling for a lawyer immediately ties the hands of Briscoe and Green?

From experience, no. (Nothing quite like getting a case in which the police have 22 hours of tape with the defendant pouring out his heart and soul.)

Gattigap · 06-25-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
From experience, no. (Nothing quite like getting a case in which the police have 22 hours of tape with the defendant pouring out his heart and soul.)

Don't be so harsh. As we now know from the FB, SS had blacked out and was still a little woozy. It took him a while to locate the "Been fucked? Call Sidd! 1-800-CORNHOLE" business card stuck in his back pocket.

Hank Chinaski · 06-25-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Oh, shit. When Bush starts in with the Klingon, you know it's time for bad cop/bad cop.

I have a niece who knew people from Turkey. For you to equate them to lizardoid aliens is fucking out of line.

Gattigap · 06-25-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I have a niece who knew people from Turkey. For you to equate them to lizardoid aliens is fucking out of line.

Boy, one Pride Week post on the FB and the honeymoon is over, eh?

What happens on the quad stays on the quad, SS. Never forget that.

Darth Bader Ginsburg · 06-25-2004, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fair and balanced
... Of course, I am sure this is just a simple misunderstanding. The Rodmans of greater chicagoland named their lovely daughter after one of that period's most renowned beekeepers in all of New Zealand, because its a little known but common Rodham family tradition to name the first daughter in a line after a little-known but uber-talented foreign apiarian.

Which Rodman came first, Dennis or Hillary?

Hank Chinaski · 06-25-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Bader Ginsburg
Which Rodman came first, Dennis or Hillary?

don't know who came first. Can bet who came more.

And Gatti, my lizard comment wads re. Klingons. I think of SS as a funny human being. I am not superficial like that.

sgtclub · 06-25-2004, 03:20 PM

In response to Ty's request, I offer this:

http://www.perryonpolitics.com/archives/001736.html

Here's a sample, for those with short attention spans:

Quote:

"They dare not admit the truth lest they look like complete fools for launching our country into a reckless, discretionary war against a nation that posed no immediate threat to us whatsoever." Al Gore - June 24, 2004

“Even if we give first priority to the destruction of terrorist networks, and even if we succeed, there are still governments that could bring us great harm. And there is a clear case that one of these governments in particular represents a virulent threat in a class by itself: Iraq. As far as I am concerned, a final reckoning with that government should be on the table." - Al Gore, Remarks To The U.S. Council On Foreign Relations, Washington, DC, February 12, 2002.

Soooooooo, you have a choice. Either he is crazy or . . . "Gore Lied, Gore Lied"!