Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by LessinSF
Bullshit. I admire the guy, in a sense. He and Jong-Il are the only "third-world" leaders with the balls to say "If you can have nukes, I can too - my country is just as valid as yours."

I don't have a problem with that, per se. The fact that someone totally batshit crazy has nukes bugs me. It's the "kill the Jews and fags and every one who isn't just like me" thing that bugs me.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by LessinSF
Bullshit. I admire the guy, in a sense. He and Jong-Il are the only "third-world" leaders with the balls to say "If you can have nukes, I can too - my country is just as valid as yours."

2. Who the fuck are we to say he's got no right to have nukes? We can bomb him to stop him from having nukes, but we're deluded idiots to say Iran has no right to have whatever weapons it wants to have. Considering Iran's list of powerful enemies, the country would be batshit crazy NOT to seek nukes.

I've never been comfortable with the term "Sunni Insurgent" either. They ran the country. We bombed it and took it over and they're the "insurgents" for trying to win back the power they had? WTF? WE, not Iraqis fighting us, are the aggressors in a foreign land.

This is an issue of picking sides. We pick our side because we want our soldiers to succeed. But we're not on the side of good or evil. We're on the side of our interests. Nothing more, nothing less. And the "good guy v. bad guy" fiction so many idiots in this country slap onto these geopolitical strategy moves, which Iraq is, is just so ludicrous.

It's the same flawed moron mindset that calls victims of any attack "heros," even if they did nothing save being victimized.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I don't have a problem with that, per se. The fact that someone totally batshit crazy has nukes bugs me. It's the "kill the Jews and fags and every one who isn't just like me" thing that bugs me.

Travel through the rural parts of the country. 50 miles outside any city you can find plenty of folks who hate Jews, Papists, Blacks, queers, etc... But you're right about the nukes. That's not a good thing. If a megachurch in Mississippi were to arm itself wirth nukes, I'd move to Anchorage.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Gattigap
In what might be the most rapid fulfillment of Godwin's Law on record, some compared Ahmadinejad to Hitler. "Why are they inviting the Persian Hitler to Columbia?" said Columbia alumnus and conservative writer David Horowitz. "Would Columbia have invited Hitler to speak?" asked others.

I only get the Chronicle, so it's possible I missed the part where Iran killed six million Jews. Or has denying the Holocaust become morally equivalent to having been personally responsible for it?

If it's the latter, I need to have a heart to heart with my friends who are PDs.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I only get the Chronicle, so it's possible I missed the part where Iran killed six million Jews. Or has denying the Holocaust become morally equivalent to having been personally responsible for it?

If it's the latter, I need to have a heart to heart with my friends who are PDs.

did you start drinking lots while you were gone?

hitler gave the order to kill the 6 million. he had access to 6 million plus the tools.

your guy has given the order to kill the jews, but they're stil too far away. Sebby and Less think we should let him have the tools to kill them far away.

I see little difference.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
did you start drinking lots while you were gone?

hitler gave the order to kill the 6 million. he had access to 6 million plus the tools.

your guy has given the order to kill the jews, but they're stil too far away. Sebby and Less think we should let him have the tools to kill them far away.

I see little difference.

I know you know this is bullshit. Neither of us want him to have nukes. I just cannot come up with a fair rationale (other than self-interest) for why other sovereign nations can't join the club.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I see little difference.

The last guy you equivalized to Hitler turned out to be pathetic and dangerous to no one other than those who repeatedly elected him. You think I'm going to fall for it again?

Call me when the real Hitler returns. By which I mean never, because that motherfucker's got to be over 100 by now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by LessinSF
I know you know this is bullshit. Neither of us want him to have nukes. I just cannot come up with a fair rationale (other than self-interest) for why other sovereign nations can't join the club.

self-interest is a good one though. I was watching the Ken Burns thing tonight. It was pretty interesting. we killed lots of French and Italian citizens to "liberate" them. We supposedly did bombings to German cities that were much worse than the blitz. In a sense wasn't that war just about self interest?

Hell Sebastian thinks you have to go 50 miles outside a city to find people who hate fags. Detroit voted 70-30 % to ban gan marriages. I'm talking about the inner city of Detroit. it voted 90% for Kerry the same night.

All people are as tribal as when Neanderthal fought cro-magnon. just because you all get soy latte instead of mastodon blood to get you going in the morning doesn't change it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
The last guy you equivalized to Hitler turned out to be pathetic and dangerous to no one other than those who repeatedly elected him. You think I'm going to fall for it again?

ty was not elected. slave gave him the keys. but thanks for playing.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
self-interest is a good one though. ...

You will get no argument from this real-politikian.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2 We look like idiots. We let Krushchev speak. We let Castro speak. Why not this guy?

Last I heard you couldn't gain insight into your enemy ignoring him. What other than a learning experience could his speech be? Really? WTF is the matter with this country. We're so high on our fucking childish moral certainties in this country it's embarrassing. This guy's an awful guy, but ignoring him is possibly only sure fire unproductive and probably counterproductive reaction we could have to his appearance. He's the best add against his kind. I say let him put a mini-series on PBS and give him a talk show.

It has nothing to do with morals, and I understand the argument of letting him hang himself. But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.

Were you in favor of allowing him to visit the towers?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2. Who the fuck are we to say he's got no right to have nukes? We can bomb him to stop him from having nukes, but we're deluded idiots to say Iran has no right to have whatever weapons it wants to have. Considering Iran's list of powerful enemies, the country would be batshit crazy NOT to seek nukes.

Agreed. And we, and more pointedly Israel, would be batshit crazy to allow it to happen. But they will get them, as will many other countries, so our only hope is that the people who run those countries value life more than power. Which is why I'm with Howard Stern on this one - we need to be exporting porn, prostitution, booze and drugs throughout the world. It's pretty hard to think about blowing up your neighbor when you've got a head full of whiskey and a couple of pros on your lap.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by sgtclub
But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.

Pick a country you think is corrupt and debauched. Say, France. Which speaking engagements there would prop President Bush up and legitimize him in your eyes?

Mostly I'm posting this because I have faith it will provoke Hank to post something funny.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sgtclub
It has nothing to do with morals, and I understand the argument of letting him hang himself. But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.

Were you in favor of allowing him to visit the towers?

He's already speaking to the General Assembly at the UN -- I doubt that adding Columbia University would add to his prestige in the Arab or Persian or Islamic world. (Whether this is a good idea for Columbia, in light of its own issues with free speech and New York politics, is a different issue.)

And I would let anyone go to Ground Zero to lay a wreath. As for having an Iranian president do the honors, I read somewhere that there were somber candlelit vigils in Iran after 9/11, unlike Penske's cheering Palestinians.

No one should be allowed to give speeches there.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
self-interest is a good one though. I was watching the Ken Burns thing tonight. It was pretty interesting. we killed lots of French and Italian citizens to "liberate" them. We supposedly did bombings to German cities that were much worse than the blitz. In a sense wasn't that war just about self interest?

Pssst -- which side was Italy on until Patton and Montgomery landed on the boot? As for the Germans, we've all read Vonnegut, so we know about Dresden. And as for what happened to the Japanese, you don't have to even mention the atomic bombs -- the firebombing of Tokyo in March 1945 killed more civilians than the second atomic bomb did in Nagasaki

WWII about self-interest? Sure, if by "self-interest" you mean "self-preservation."