Waiting for Fitzgerald

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Where to begin?

Now, now - don't mess with the vision of this glorious little war.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Now, now - don't mess with the vision of this glorious little war.

Let me guess, your great, great, great grandfather stood around Beacan Hill in 1775 and had similar misgivings, right?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Let me guess, your great, great, great grandfather stood around Beacan Hill in 1775 and had similar misgivings, right?

That's right, club, because anyone who voices criticism of this war hates America.

Please explain for us again how the Iraq was is like the American Revolution.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
That's right, club, because anyone who voices criticism of this war hates America.

Please explain for us again how the Iraq was is like the American Revolution.

Not my point at all. I welcome critism. It is American. But what I don't like is trying to judge the success or merits with sufficient distance.

[Spanky]

Did everyone see that the deficit at 319 Billion down from 412 billion last year. Even more important this year's deficit is 2.6 percent of GNP where last years deficit was 3.6 percent of GNP. In 1983 the deficit was 6 percent of GNP.

2.6% of GNP ain't bad when one has a war on and just pulled out of a recession. I think during World War II is was like 120% of GNP.

Once again the surge in the economy trumps tax cuts and spending increases. If we get a 100 billion drop every year we will balance the budget in three more years.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Spanky
If we get a 100 billion drop every year we will balance the budget in three more years.

Don't count on it. What that would mean is that spending will go up by $300 billion

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Not my point at all. I welcome critism. It is American. But what I don't like is trying to judge the success or merits with sufficient distance.

I'm going to assume you mean, "...trying to judge the success or merits with insufficient distance".

If that's so, hasn't Spanky done just that? He's already declaring it a great success.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Don't count on it. What that would mean is that spending will go up by $300 billion

Damn that Republican Congress.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I'm going to assume you mean, "...trying to judge the success or merits with insufficient distance".

If that's so, hasn't Spanky done just that? He's already declaring it a great success.

No - I pointed out that under most of the possible scenarios it will be a success. I have not concluded that it will be a success. There is always the possiblity that something unexpected will happen.

But I will say, from our perspective, every foreign policy foray is a risk, and the downside of this risk were pretty minimal. So from a risk reward analysis I think it was the right decision.

Actually the big risk was the war itself. We didn't know if Saddam was going to use a WMD on our troops and if he did we could have lost hundreds of thousand of men and women. But he did not, so the real big risk is over. The biggest down side has been avoided.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Don't count on it. What that would mean is that spending will go up by $300 billion

I don't understand what you are saying. Spending is still going to increase dramtically. It is just a question if the revenue generated by the growth overcomes those increases. If last year is any indication I think it will.

If spending increases by 400 billion next year but economic growth increases revenues by 500 billion then that will be good. That is what kept happening in the 90s.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Spanky
I don't understand what you are saying. Spending is still going to increase dramtically. It is just a question if the revenue generated by the growth overcomes those increases. If last year is any indication I think it will.

If spending increases by 400 billion next year but economic growth increases revenues by 500 billion then that will be good. That is what kept happening in the 90s.

What I'm saying is that I have zero confidence that the increase in spending with bear any relation to the increase in revenues.

ETA: And I'm not in this for par. I spent years reading and believing that the GOP stood for REDUCING government spending and the size of the federal government. I think the 1994 congress did truly believe this. I think Newt truly believes this. But the bumbs in office now care only about maintaining power.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Not my point at all. I welcome critism. It is American. But what I don't like is trying to judge the success or merits with sufficient distance.

So disagreement shouldn't be voiced until 20 years after the fact?

I'll agree to this if penske will, also.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
So disagreement shouldn't be voiced until 20 years after the fact?

No, but judgement as to success or failure, or the wisdom of the war, should not be. Disagree all you want. Odds are you will feel like an idiot 5 to 10 years from now. But Hank tells me you look like an idiot now, so you have nothing to lose.

[Gattigap]

I've been reading various asides about how Cheney has become disengaged from the Administration generally and/or how Cheney and Bush don't seem to like each other anymore.

Can't really find much more about it though, which isn't hard to guess since Cheney's has been most low-profile Administration official since the 2000 inauguration.

Spanky? Any truth to the stories? What's it looking like from the persona non grata wing of the party, as you've put it?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by sgtclub
No, but judgement as to success or failure, or the wisdom of the war, should not be. Disagree all you want. Odds are you will feel like an idiot 5 to 10 years from now. But Hank tells me you look like an idiot now, so you have nothing to lose.

You really can't go calling people idiots when you spell judgment with an "e."

Mortal sin... even for me.