The New And Improved Fashion Board

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
New gwnc avatar.

Naughty.

[SlaveNoMore]

greatwhitenorthchick
She was allegedly a waitress there, not a stripper. Do waitresses make as much as strippers?

good question.

another question - they have waitresses in strip bars?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
She was allegedly a waitress there, not a stripper. Do waitresses make as much as strippers?

I think she was probably a waitress, since I don't think there are too many 49 yo strippers out there. Or are there?

They should have a MILF club like that. That'd be a fun novelty joint.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Getting paid $20 every three minutes by men that can't touch you - yeah, that's harrassment all right

That wasn't really what I was getting at, but you are correct, the issue is really twofold - (a) the baggage that they bring into deciding to be strippers for a living (many of them have been abused by men in the past) and (b) the effect that being objectified for a living can have on their pysches. In short, I don't think it would be hard to find women in that industry who hate/have extreme anger towards men. My anecdotal sample (my one (ex-) friend who was a stripper) is 100% on this particular issue.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
(b) the effect that being objectified...

How YOU doin', Pretty Lady?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
That wasn't really what I was getting at, but you are correct, the issue is really twofold - (a) the baggage that they bring into deciding to be strippers for a living (many of them have been abused by men in the past) and (b) the effect that being objectified for a living can have on their pysches. In short, I don't think it would be hard to find women in that industry who hate/have extreme anger towards men. My anecdotal sample (my one (ex-) friend who was a stripper) is 100% on this particular issue.

I don't think its hard to find women who hate men (and vice versa) in any industry.

We're all objectified, every day. Is there really a tremendous difference in being objectified for your body and being objectified somewhere on a chart as "employee 431"? Objectification's an odd word I've never been comfrotable with. If not for its allegedly evil effects, how would anyone reproduce? When I've wanted to have sex, no matter how much I may love or respect the person I'm doing it ith, it's her looks I'm thinking about. And this all applies to women as well. They objectify men all day. Stripping just takes our objectifications to their lowest level.

I don't think stripping fosters sexist attitudes toward women. I think it simply exposes them. The reason stripping gets blacklisted as a negatively objectifying activity toward women is because there's no popular comparable activity in which women enjoy objectifying men. Women don't dig strip clubs like men do. So the playing field in re which sex gets objectified in strip clubs appears lopsided. In reality, its a neutral reflection of sex differencs, and no basis for women to get angry at men. Maybe that's what frustrates so many feminists. Strip clubs are natural products of men being men.

FWIW, I'm no strip club nut. I think they're a waste of fucking money. I've never paid for sex and never will (assuming all things stay somewhat the same), and I have no interest in giving piles of money to a woman to show me what I won't be getting.

ETA: I'm not assuming you take a position one way or another. I'm just jumping off onto an issue that's long bugged me.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't think its hard to find women who hate men (and vice versa) in any industry.

We're all objectified, every day. Is there really a tremendous difference in being objectified for your body and being objectified somewhere on a chart as "employee 431"? Objectification's an odd word I've never been comfrotable with. If not for its allegedly evil effects, how would anyone reproduce? When I've wanted to have sex, no matter how much I may love or respect the person I'm doing it ith, it's her looks I'm thinking about. And this all applies to women as well. They objectify men all day. Stripping just takes our objectifications to their lowest level.

I don't think stripping fosters sexist attitudes toward women. I think it simply exposes them. The reason stripping gets blacklisted as a negatively objectifying activity toward women is because there's no popular comparable activity in which women enjoy objectifying men. Women don't dig strip clubs like men do. So the playing field in re which sex gets objectified in strip clubs appears lopsided. In reality, its a neutral reflection of sex differencs, and no basis for women to get angry at men. Maybe that's what frustrates so many feminists. Strip clubs are natural products of men being men.

FWIW, I'm no strip club nut. I think they're a waste of fucking money. I've never paid for sex and never will (assuming all things stay somewhat the same), and I have no interest in giving piles of money to a woman to show me what I won't be getting.

ETA: I'm not assuming you take a position one way or another. I'm just jumping off onto an issue that's long bugged me.

I more or less agree with you. I'd actually like to have a happier take on stripping as empowering or whatever, and I'm sure for some it is (but probably not for the majority or sex workers/strippers). I think it is sad that the power dynamic in our country regarding sex is the way it is, but I'm not sure what, if anything, could ever be done to change that. The best efforts in the sex shop arena seem to occur when women have some ownership/input (eg., Good Vibrations).

RT and I read the book Strip City in which a former stripper went back and checked out the strip club scene with fresh eyes after having been out for a number of years. And I'm sure RT has other books to discuss on the subject. It really is an interesting subject to me, and I'm not some strip club hater (though they aren't for me), but people who ignore the power dynamic at work and the way a lot of the women feel about men as a result of it are fooling themselves.*



*yes, I realize that a lot of men go to strip clubs for the very purpose of fooling themselves (into thinking these women would otherwise give them the time of day).

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

FWIW, I'm no strip club nut. I think they're a waste of fucking money. I've never paid for sex and never will (assuming all things stay somewhat the same), and I have no interest in giving piles of money to a woman to show me what I won't be getting.

I like ogling naked gorgous chicks and will gladly pay for that pleasure.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
We're all objectified, every day. Is there really a tremendous difference in being objectified for your body and being objectified somewhere on a chart as "employee 431"?

Of all the people on this board, I didn't figure sebby for the closet Marxist, and yet he expresses alienation from his species meaning. Huh. I'm going to go back and re-read the Eighteenth Brumaire so we can bond.

[SlaveNoMore]

pony_trekker
I like ogling naked gorgous chicks and will gladly pay for that pleasure.

And oh, does your wife make you pay.

[dc_chef]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
*yes, I realize that a lot of men go to strip clubs for the very purpose of fooling themselves (into thinking these women would otherwise give them the time of day).

I am not fooled. I am, however, made happy when an insanely hot stripper grinds her naked ass all over my crotch.

[SlaveNoMore]

dc_chef
I am not fooled. I am, however, made happy when an insanely hot stripper grinds her naked ass all over my crotch.

Dear Chef:

Which of these items has the worst affect on your Britney worship:

a) Married K-Fed(Fed-ex)
b) has 2 children in 20 months with above
c) has nasty ginch and hairy ass shown all over the tabloids
d) is becoming a Lohan-ish coke whore
e) is rumoured to be dyking out with - gulp - Paris
f) None of the above - she is infallible.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Terrible mistreatment... all that money being shoved into you hands. A girl could get carpal tunnel like that.

As I have stated before I have dated a few strippers and met a lot of their friends. Less can attest to this also, but a well adjusted stripper is pretty rare. However, I wouldn't say they are hostile towards men. Women who aren’t happy with their bodies, and feminists* (often you get both with the same packages) tend to be hostile, overly sensitive and generally angry towards men.

Strippers on the other hand don't seem to have the anger at men. I think women that are angry at men generally don't get as much attention from men as they want, where strippers get all the attention they need. Having said that, strippers, although not angry and sensitive towards men are generally a screwed up bunch. Even though they make an obscene amount of money they never have any because most of it is spent on drugs and clothes. The typical stripper will have an old nasty car, live in a run down apartment, but have a closet full of Channel. In addition, they are about as stable as a pool of nitroglycerine surrounded by trees in the fall. I have never figured out why. They do have hostility but it seems to be directed at each other. They are always fighting with each other and seem to have a lot of hostility towards women that come into the clubs (of course they pretend to like the girls that come in). Most strippers will tell you they don't have many friends that are women and don't trust women in general.

Of course these are sweeping generalizations, and of course there are exceptions, but I think they hold true most of the time.

*By feminist, I mean the hard core types that think the entire society is rigged against them, they can never catch a break because they are female and see sexism everywhere. A run of the mill feminist (meaning a women that thinks women should have equal rights with men, want to make a career for themselves and don't want to be dependent on men) are usually more generally stable and well adjusted than most men (in my opinion).

[SlaveNoMore]

Spanky
As I have stated before I have dated a few strippers and met a lot of their friends....

Note to Spanky:

To fit in here, you should have ended the post right here.

You need a better editor.

And I need to have more parties with more of your friends.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Note to Spanky:

To fit in here, you should have ended the post right here.

You need a better editor.

And I need to have more parties with more of your friends.

oh please. he's trying to start a fight with the bitter spinsters. I almost bit, and then was like, whatever, I'd rather he stay focused on the fucked-in-the-head* strippers.


*and not in the relatively fun, skull-fucking way