Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Most of what you say makes sense to me, TM, but women and men are not similarly situated in this regard. Comments from male passersby have a latent threatening aspect to them that comments from women to men don't have.

Absolutely, and I think I included that when I noted that there are physical differences between men and women that may contribute to why a woman isn't as comfortable with it.

But, I know plenty of women who tell me all about the comments they receive. Usually, it's annoying (and I understand that), but I have heard from hot women the following: "How do I look today? I haven't heard one comment all day long and I walked here all the way from [whatever] st. Do I look bad today?" Insecurity aside, I take it such comments aren't always perceived as negative.

While this might not actually mean that they like hearing comments on their appearance, it does mean some women take note. And my question still stands. Is it always a bad thing?

TM

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by former gov't
I thought "You're so vain" was about Mick Jagger?

Mick is also a theory, as is Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone (back when he was straight). However, I seem to recall that the consensus pick among music critics (I don't think Carly has ever said anything) is that Warren is the guy. Apparently, Carly and Warren once dated. And Warren had a scarf that was apricot.

One other song -- Bob Seger's "Her Strut" is reportedly about Jane Fonda.

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall


But, I know plenty of women who tell me all about the comments they receive. Usually, it's annoying (and I understand that), but I have heard from hot women the following: "How do I look today? I haven't heard one comment all day long and I walked here all the way from [whatever] st. Do I look bad today?" Insecurity aside, I take it such comments aren't always perceived as negative.


TM

I hope you tell your friend to get over herself. God, what an asshole. How do people say things like that with a straight face? And who cares if they look bad on any given day. She probably was heading to the bar to meet SD who would then proceed to not hit on her and she would call him a dick or a snob.

[SlaveNoMore]

Not Bob
Mick is also a theory...

I never understood how anyone could believe this.

Carly:
"Hey Mick, I wrote this really obnoxious song about you. Would you mind singing backup on it?"

I also thought it was clear that is was about [her ex] James Taylor?

not7yS

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Mick is also a theory, as is Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone (back when he was straight). However, I seem to recall that the consensus pick among music critics (I don't think Carly has ever said anything) is that Warren is the guy. Apparently, Carly and Warren once dated. And Warren had a scarf that was apricot.

One other song -- Bob Seger's "Her Strut" is reportedly about Jane Fonda.

Not that it means the song is or isn't about him, but Mick is actually singing back-up in that song. It's most noticeable toward the end. Listen. Hear him?

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I never understood how anyone could believe this.

Carly:
"Hey Mick, I wrote this really obnoxious song about you. Would you mind singing backup on it?"

not7yS

Maybe so, but you have to admit, Mick is, as the Brits are wont to say certainly "cheeky" enough to sing backup on a song that was about him.

spooky(just a thought)fish

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
But I did like the Crowes live double album. When is Chris Robinsion coming out with his solo thing that will likely suck?

ESPN Page Two (Sport's Guy) on Chris Robinson at the Academy Awards: "Kate Hudson wins the Oscar for Best Actress In The Audience Who's Apparently Married to a Homeless Man."

Its about Warren Beatty. ENd of discussion. I dont think James Taylor owns racehorses and learjets . The guy in the song didnt marry her. obviously.

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I never understood how anyone could believe this.

Carly:
"Hey Mick, I wrote this really obnoxious song about you. Would you mind singing backup on it?"

I also thought it was clear that is was about [her ex] James Taylor?

not7yS

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Its about Warren Beatty. ENd of discussion. I dont think James Taylor owns racehorses and learjets . The guy in the song didnt marry her. obviously.

For Christ's sake, would someone throw her a chunk of meat (or soy) or something? We have a short thread about this song and an interminably long and boring thread about what it means when men look at women (and vice-versa). End of fucking discussion indeed.

Tell you what Paigow, we'll stop if you will.

spookyfish

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I never understood how anyone could believe this.

Carly:
"Hey Mick, I wrote this really obnoxious song about you. Would you mind singing backup on it?"

I also thought it was clear that is was about [her ex] James Taylor?

not7yS

I've always heard its about Beatty.

Ned Beatty, of course...

"Now squeal like a pig"

Why is Carly soooo hot? She ain't really hot, her lips put Steven Tyler to shame, her chin protrudes more than Johnny Unitas', but nevertheless... I'd just love to bang her...

S(she's just so naughty)D

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Anyone know how to forward PMs?

Never fuck with the paigow. mmmmmmmmmmmmhahahahahahaha

Um, isn't that better proof of the theorem, "Never communicate with the paigow"?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Most of what you say makes sense to me, TM, but women and men are not similarly situated in this regard. Comments from male passersby have a latent threatening aspect to them that comments from women to men don't have.

I think the test is how you men would feel about comments from male passers by. It's not necessarily a male ego thing, but a question of whether or not there's a perceived threat. I don't think that most men perceive a threat from a woman who makes a comment about them. But I also think that a lot of straight men feel somewhat threatened by gay men who make appreciative comments. (Though a recent discussion with what I thought was a rednecky type revealed that once straight guys realize the free drink potential at gay clubs, the terror level goes back down from orange to green.) Women are somewhat conditioned to feel a degree of threat from advances from unknown straight males.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by evenodds
Perhaps the true equalizer is whether you feel the same when a man makes those comments to you.

There is an underlying element of sexual aggression when a man makes statements of a sexual nature to a woman in a situation where she is walking down a street or otherwise somewhat alone or vulnerable.

From discussions with my SO and other male friends, there is a higher level of discomfort when they are whistled at or catcalled by men that is akin to what women experience.

Aha. Good point. There's some meat on that bone (so to speak).

And I actually have experience in this area. The analogy is a good one, except that homosexuality (even in NYC) is not the norm. Therefore, my initial reaction, which could be viewed as negative is more often one of surprise.

The first time it happened (when I was very young and the person was a little too old to be saying what he said), I was quite angry. However, I have no problem with it now, especially since it so rarely happens. Although I will note, I think they have little signals which tell each other they are open, which an unsophisticated hetero might not pick up, like a prolonged stare or a question where the answer is obvious. Awhile back it used to be an untucked hankie in the back left or right pocket. Some thought that the earring in the right ear (in the early 80s) was a signal, but I think this one's made up. But I digress.

I can tell you that when I am ready for it (meaning it won't be a surprise), it certainly doesn't upset me. It rarely happens, but on occassion when in the village or Chelsea, I will get hit on. No big deal and actually somewhat flattering. Others may get offended that someone might think that they are gay, but if you're not actually gay, what difference does that make? In fact, a friend of mine had a going away party at an uber-gay bar in Chelsea and invited me. I got there and walked all around it trying to look for him. When I found him, he was surprised that I noticed that none of the guys had out and out (no pun intended) hit on me (smiley stares notwithstanding) and asked him about it. He laughed and explained that it was clear by the way I was walking (I guess a tipoff in this particular club) that I wasn't gay. Maybe he just didn't want to tell me that he didn't like my clothes.

So, how does this relate to my question? I think to answer, it probably doesn't bother me because it happens so infrequently, although it certainly wouldn't piss me off it happened all the time.

TM

[JustForFun]

Look - everyone is somewhat right and somewhat wrong here.

Women who have their tits sticking out of their shirts do so for one reason and one reason only - to get male attention. However, it is one thing to look at them, another thing to stare at them, and even another thing to stare at them and say - "Whoa, Mama, where'dya get those hot lookin' tatas!" The problem is that there really are women who would like a man to scream that kind of shit at them. You can usually tell who they are because they have their tits hanging out of their shirts and are dressed like cheap whores in public. So men get confused.

Here is a rule of thumb for you guys to use. If the tits are hanging out of the shirt, look but don't stare. She wants you to look at them, that is why she has them displayed that way. If the tits are hanging out of the shirt and she is dressed like a cheap whore in public, stare at them. She really wants you to stare and shout something indicating your sexual desire for her, but if you do that and aren't a construction worker actually at work when she walks by, it makes you look bad.

Women who wear ugly Jones of NY suits and carry coach bags are not looking for attention from men, and are sure not to get any in an androgynous get-up like that. So, guys, if you are a freak of nature and would be turned on by that type of outer wear, leave women who are dressed like that alone! They are obviously trying to turn you off so get a fucking clue.

Leagle feels uncomfortable with the women in her class wearing low cut shirts because, for her (our) generation, it was not considered appropriate to wear low cut shirts to class. The younger people suckled on a diet of MTV and they don't see anything wrong with it. In their minds, if you flaunt your sexuality at a funeral it is appropriate. So Leagle, get a clue. They aren't trying to send you any sexual signals with their choice in dress. They are just trying to wear what they perceive as hip clothes. They have different fashion mores than we do and if you insist on making teaching them the law part of your career, you will have to get used to them dressing that way. Don't let it make you feel uncomfortable. It is just a tit.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Aha. Good point. There's some meat on that bone (so to speak).

And I actually have experience in this area. The analogy is a good one, except that homosexuality (even in NYC) is not the norm. Therefore, my initial reaction, which could be viewed as negative is more often one of surprise.

The first time it happened (when I was very young and the person was a little too old to be saying what he said), I was quite angry. However, I have no problem with it now, especially since it so rarely happens. Although I will note, I think they have little signals which tell each other they are open, which an unsophisticated hetero might not pick up, like a prolonged stare or a question where the answer is obvious. Awhile back it used to be an untucked hankie in the back left or right pocket. Some thought that the earring in the right ear (in the early 80s) was a signal, but I think this one's made up. But I digress.

I can tell you that when I am ready for it (meaning it won't be a surprise), it certainly doesn't upset me. It rarely happens, but on occassion when in the village or Chelsea, I will get hit on. No big deal and actually somewhat flattering. Others may get offended that someone might think that they are gay, but if you're not actually gay, what difference does that make? In fact, a friend of mine had a going away party at an uber-gay bar in Chelsea and invited me. I got there and walked all around it trying to look for him. When I found him, he was surprised that I noticed that none of the guys had out and out (no pun intended) hit on me (smiley stares notwithstanding) and asked him about it. He laughed and explained that it was clear by the way I was walking (I guess a tipoff in this particular club) that I wasn't gay. Maybe he just didn't want to tell me that he didn't like my clothes.

So, how does this relate to my question? I think to answer, it probably doesn't bother me because it happens so infrequently, although it certainly wouldn't piss me off it happened all the time.

TM

TM,

For cats who never agree on shit, we've had some similar experiences.

I've been hit on a few times by gay dudes, and I find it nothing but flattering. What the hell? Why not take a compliment.

The only time it freaked me out was when I found a note on my car when I was leaving the gym which said "I've been noticing you and wonder if you'd be interested in meeting me. I'm a GWM. I'm tan, attractive and into weight lifting." That one freaked me out a bit. I parked elsewhere for a long time and always looked over my shoulder... The last thing I needed was to wake up in an alleyway with a chloroform hangover and a KY Jelly slick on my ass.

S(maybe its because of my lipstick and eyliner)D