Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
A different question that the others: are you suggesting the assumptions were faulty, something that could have been disproven by testing them through the process? Or are you suggesting that there was a malignant or dishonest intent?

I'm suggesting that the DEMs had a choice - Concede the election or fight under a colorable, though perhaps not likely argument.
Remember, Gore was going to give a concession speech and then pulled back. I think what happened was that word came down that there were grounds under which a challenge could be made, and Gore decided to fight it out.

I believe these are very different things. Because the Supreme Court chose to value finality over certainty, we will never know whether the Dem's assumptions are faulty.

Except for the upteen audits done by nearly every news organization in the country, many of which done in conjunction with Big 4 auditing firms.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I can't. I read the book 3 years ago. This is not stuff that can be boiled down to a 10 page VF spread. I think we can all agree that Posner is no Alterman.

Please read the article and tell me the facts you or Posner disagree with. You have already mistated a huge popular misconception, stating that "[t]he GOP did not file the initial complaint." This is false, no matter what your definition or understanding of "file" is. I would like for you to point me to any misconceptions I may be laboring under as well.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm suggesting that the DEMs had a choice - Concede the election or fight under a colorable, though perhaps not likely argument.
Remember, Gore was going to give a concession speech and then pulled back. I think what happened was that word came down that there were grounds under which a challenge could be made, and Gore decided to fight it out.

Nice guess, I suppose, if you like talking out your ass (nttawwt). Gore was prepared to concede, and then was informed of massive irregularities (such as 16,000 negative votes in Volusia countyand that he was behind on 600 votes with 180,000 remaining to be counted. I think he owed it to the voters NOT to concede.

Except for the upteen audits done by nearly every news organization in the country, many of which done in conjunction with Big 4 auditing firms.

Again, the issue of recounts is not so simple as that. The newpapers only examined the undervotes. There were 113,000 overvotes (Ty has explained what these are). When the newpapers examined the overvotes, they determined that Gore would have won.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Please read the article and tell me the facts you or Posner disagree with. You have already mistated a huge popular misconception, stating that "[t]he GOP did not file the initial complaint." This is false, no matter what your definition or understanding of "file" is. I would like for you to point me to any misconceptions I may be laboring under as well.

Please kiss my ass. No matter what I post, you are going to continue to live in your pipe dream world. That said, if you read the 300 page book (you know, the one written by one of the most respected legal minds around), I'll agree to read a 10 page spread written by some shlub at VF.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Please kiss my ass. No matter what I post, you are going to continue to live in your pipe dream world. That said, if you read the 300 page book (you know, the one written by one of the most respected legal minds around), I'll agree to read a 10 page spread written by some shlub at VF.

You read a book and still don't have a handle on the most basic facts. You haven't countered any of the facts I've presented with anything more than "Maybe, but I didn't like it when the Dems did that." Did your parents receive child-raising tips from Joe Kennedy? Your being particularly dense on this.

I'll take your offer of love as a concession of defeat.

46-7.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
You read a book and still don't have a handle on the most basic facts. You haven't countered any of the facts I've presented with anything more than "Maybe, but I didn't like it when the Dems did that." Did your parents receive child-raising tips from Joe Kennedy? Your being particularly dense on this.

I'll take your offer of love as a concession of defeat.

46-7.

What don't I have a handle on? That I used the term "filed" rather than "instituted the recount?" The substance is the same. And your overvote claim is laughable, considering that the recounts done in Volusia show a net gain to Gore (including overvotes) of 98. Yea, he might have "thought" there were 16,000, but there were actually 98.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
You read a book and still don't have a handle on the most basic facts. You haven't countered any of the facts I've presented with anything more than "Maybe, but I didn't like it when the Dems did that." Did your parents receive child-raising tips from Joe Kennedy? Your being particularly dense on this.

I'll take your offer of love as a concession of defeat.

46-7.

OK, I am now willing to concede the debate was boring, if this is what we have to talk about the day after.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bilmore
Yep. Bring up white supremacists and Nazis in a conversation on Kerry's anti-gay-marriage stance . That's a bright move, Sparky.


__________________

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that either (a) you're just ripping on me and not suggesting that Kerry is either a white supremacist or nazi or (b) that the person who you had to tell to cut that nine million dollar check you referred to earlier didn't take it well but has figured out where to get the first $200,000 to cover it.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Siblings are typcially fair game, unless they are retarded or something.

That won't protect them. See, e.g., Billy Carter and Roger Clinton.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
What don't I have a handle on? That I used the term "filed" rather than "instituted the recount?" The substance is the same. And your overvote claim is laughable, considering that the recounts done in Volusia show a net gain to Gore (including overvotes) of 98. Yea, he might have "thought" there were 16,000, but there were actually 98.

You said "The GOP did not file the initial complaint." I stated that your statement was incorrect, which it is. The initial reporting from Volusia indicated a negative 16,000 votes for Gore. This in my mind would raise any reasonable eyebrows and suggest that a recount might be necessary. If a county showed negative votes for W, you would be furious and demand a recount also.

You have my source of the final result of counting overvotes. Where is yours? Just making shit up again?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
OK, I am now willing to concede the debate was boring, if this is what we have to talk about the day after.

Okay, I'll take that as a hint. Club, final shot is yours.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I recommend Posner's book on the subject. A little more substantial than VF, but I think you're up to the task.

The fact that you would recommend Posner on anything speaks volumes. He is easily the most activist judge on the federal bench. If it would put a stop to Posner's abuse of his lieftime appointment, I would even be willing to become a strict constructionist.

[SlaveNoMore]

taxwonk
That won't protect them. See, e.g., Billy Carter

Listening to Brother Jimmy's rants and raves over the last 20 years, it's quite clear the apple did not fall far from the tree.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Please kiss my ass. No matter what I post, you are going to continue to live in your pipe dream world. That said, if you read the 300 page book (you know, the one written by one of the most respected legal minds around), I'll agree to read a 10 page spread written by some shlub at VF.

I'm sorry. Whose book are you talking about? I thought you said it was by Posner.

[SlaveNoMore]

taxwonk
The fact that you would recommend Posner on anything speaks volumes.

Note the restraint I exercised from the mere mention of a Vanity Fair* article as a neutral, unbiased report.

* The magazine which reported on the RNC speeches 3 weeks before they occurred.