Politics: J'accuse!

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
See this is where lots of the Arab world appears to be. So when we do things that might "enflame" it, I don't get how.

You don't get how we could enflame it, because why? They're so wrongheaded?

Anyone know if the US has had any specific response to Abdullah's statements? I'm tired of our coddling SA for stuff like this, esp when westerners in their country continue to be killed by Islamists.

[andViolins]

Hey Ty,

Has Tiger Woods seen your new avatar, cause that chick is whiter that white!

aV

[bilmore]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
You don't get how we could enflame it, because why? They're so wrongheaded?

I think he means that, when they live their lives surrounded by calls from their clergy to kill us all, that we are satan's pigs, and that we deserve a fiery hell, the new and additional knowledge that we taunted them might REALLY piss them off.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think he means that, when they live their lives surrounded by calls from their clergy to kill us all, that we are satan's pigs, and that we deserve a fiery hell, the new and additional knowledge that we taunted them might REALLY piss them off.

I live surrounded by people yapping about how if you don't accept Christ as your savior blah blah blah, you are going to die in a fiery hell, etc. etc. I generally ignore this and don't think it's really true. However, if I saw the Rapture beginning, I might change my mind.

Why do we want to give people who may doubt that we are satan's pigs who hate and despise and denigrate all Muslims (nice, pigs, hah, YOU ARE SO FUNNY!!!!!!!) confirmation that we are satan's pigs who hate and despise and denigrate all Muslims?

[andViolins]

Sudan keeps seat on U.N. rights panel

UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- African nations have ensured that Sudan will keep its seat on the U.N. Human Rights Commission, a decision that angered the United States and human rights advocates who cited reports of widespread rights abuses by the Khartoum government.

A coalition of 10 organizations concerned with human rights issues went further Monday, complaining that too few democracies are being nominated for seats on the commission.

In elections Tuesday for 14 seats on the main U.N. human rights watchdog, the coalition said three out of four African seats will be filled by non-democratic regimes -- Sudan, Guinea and Togo. In Asia, Vietnam and Pakistan, which both have questionable human rights records, are vying for seats and at least one will be elected, it said.

Under U.N. rules, regional groups decide which countries are nominated to fill seats on U.N. bodies.

The African group waited until late last week to present its list of four candidates for four seats -- guaranteeing election for Kenya, Sudan, Guinea and Togo.

The United States scrambled to get another African nation to apply in an effort to make it a contested race and unseat Sudan. But with so little time it was unsuccessful, U.N. diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"This last-minute announcement that Sudan will be unchallenged by another African country is extremely disappointing to all involved," said Richard Grenell, spokesman for U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte.

"Sudan's human rights issues are well-known. We've been concerned for quite some time, and will continue to work to make progress at the Human Rights Commission and in other venues," he said.

In late April, the Human Rights Commission expressed concern about the situation in Sudan's western Darfur region. It stopped short of formal condemnation of the government, which has been accused of backing militias that are destroying villages, executing civilians, raping women and displacing hundreds of thousands of people.

"A government that engages in wholesale abuses of its citizens should not be eligible for a seat at the table, especially a country just criticized by the commission," said Joanna Weschler, U.N. representative for Human Rights Watch, which is part of the coalition.

Freedom House Executive Director Jennifer Windsor said the Asian group also could have nominated better candidates, citing Vietnam's "violent crackdown against the country's indigenous Montagnard people" and "serious concerns" about the rights records of both Vietnam and Pakistan.

The two countries are vying for three seats on the commission along with Malaysia and South Korea.

In recent years, Human Rights Watch has complained that the growing number of nations on the 53-member commission with poor human rights records have been sticking together to cover up abuses.

The coalition has backed a proposal endorsed by over 100 governments to create a permanent United Nations democracy caucus. One of its goals would be to press for more democracies on the Human Rights Commission, said Ted Piccone, executive director of the Democracy Coalition Project.

Last year, the United States walked out of the U.N. Economic and Social Council to protest Cuba's re-election to the Human Rights Commission, which it called "an outrage." Russia, Saudi Arabia and several African countries with poor human rights records also won seats and Libya chaired the commission.

In this year's election, Armenia, Romania, Ecuador and Mexico are assured seats because they face no opposition. But there is a contested race among Western nations with Canada, Finland, France and Spain vying for three seats.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

I'm 90 - 95% sure that any trouble in Sudan, like the rest of the world, is caused by the Zionists. Really.

aV

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Iniquity
Maybe that zinger worked best for you, but from the other side of the aisle, the lowest blow was accusing Bush of crying "racism" like a >gasp< Democrat.

Isn't Will's point "they" can't be democratic? Why can't Iraq be a Democracy? "They" have one in Turkey. It is racism to say there can't be a Democracy in Iraq. Whether the ethnic divides etc. are so great that the cost is too high, is another question.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think he means that, when they live their lives surrounded by calls from their clergy to kill us all, that we are satan's pigs, and that we deserve a fiery hell, the new and additional knowledge that we taunted them might REALLY piss them off.

That is one excellent self-fulfilling prophecy you've set up there. We can "taunt" them (or insert other verb minimizing whatever we do here) because they're already mad at us, so then when we do treat them that way and they show their anger, you can say the hatred was there all along.

In the hopes of deflecting an arm-waving straw man argument, I would like to say here that while the MPs certainly weren't just calling the prisoners funny names, I don't think the MPs are the war criminal equivalent of Ratko Mladic.

[Iniquity]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski It is racism to say there can't be a Democracy in Iraq.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Remember, Hope is not a plan. It's in Arkansas.

[Iniquity]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
That is one excellent self-fulfilling prophecy you've set up there. We can "taunt" them (or insert other verb minimizing whatever we do here) because they're already mad at us, so then when we do treat them that way and they show their anger, you can say the hatred was there all along.

In the hopes of deflecting an arm-waving straw man argument, I would like to say here that while the MPs certainly weren't just calling the prisoners funny names, I don't think the MPs are the war criminal equivalent of Ratko Mladic.

How to tell when it's a bad news cycle for the GOP:

"But they aren't bad war crimes."

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
It is racism to say there can't be a Democracy in Iraq. Whether the ethnic divides etc. are so great that the cost is too high, is another question.

Isn't that the same as what Will said?

"Condoleezza Rice, a political scientist, believes there is scholarly evidence that democratic institutions do not merely spring from a hospitable culture, but that they also can help create such a culture. She is correct; they can. They did so in the young American republic. But it would be reassuring to see more evidence that the administration is being empirical, believing that this can happen in some places, as opposed to ideological, believing that it must happen everywhere it is tried."

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Isn't Will's point "they" can't be democratic? Why can't Iraq be a Democracy? "They" have one in Turkey. It is racism to say there can't be a Democracy in Iraq.

Lord knows I lack the intellectual capacity to understand a George Will column, but I took his point to be that Iraq very well can be a democracy, but that the President is improperly demonizing anyone who questions whether it will be a democracy, or whether we've done the right things to make that possible outcome probable. As in, the potential outcomes could be different from the desired one, and that it's bad for conservatism to shut down anyone who posits or prepares for something other than the best result.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Iniquity
How to tell when it's a bad news cycle for the GOP:

"But they aren't bad war crimes."

Yeah. I liked Rob Corddry's line on last night's Daily Show: "So what if they're facts, Jon? Facts in Iraq clearly have an anti-Bush agenda."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Lord knows I lack the intellectual capacity to understand a George Will column, but I took his point to be that Iraq very well can be a democracy, but that the President is improperly demonizing anyone who questions whether it will be a democracy, or whether we've done the right things to make that possible outcome probable. As in, the potential outcomes could be different from the desired one, and that it's bad for conservatism to shut down anyone who posits or prepares for something other than the best result.

Ok. So Ty's snotty response to me is how Will feels Bush has been behaving, while you and Larry's responses are how Will feels Bush should be behaving. I get it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Lord knows I lack the intellectual capacity to understand a George Will column.

Even the baseball writing is above my head.

[Iniquity]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Even the baseball writing is above my head.

I'm just struggling to keep up with your posts, so I don't know how I pretend to follow Will.