Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Kerry could win and we need to learn how to decipher his votes and statements.

A start:

"Moderator: You have a new plan.

Senator Kerry: Can I just say here Chris for one moment that I have a new plan?

Moderator: Er... exactly. (he gestures but she does not say anything) What is it?

Senator Kerry: Where? (looks round)

Moderator: No, no. Your new plan.

Senator Kerry: Oh, what is my plan?

Moderator: Yes.

Senator Kerry: Oh what is my plan that it is. Well Chris you may well ask me what is my plan.

Moderator: I am asking.

Senator Kerry: Good for you. My word yes. Well Chris, what is it that it is - this plan of mine. Well, this is what it is - my plan that I have, that is to say, which is mine, is mine.

Moderator: (beginning to show signs of exasperation) Yes, I know it's yours, what is it?

Senator Kerry: Where? Oh, what is my plan? This is it. (clears throat at some length) My plan that belongs to me is as follows. (clears throat at great length) This is how it goes. The next thing I"m going to say is my plan. Ready?

Moderator: Yes!

Senator Kerry: My plan by J Kerry. Brackets Senator, brackets. This plan goes as follows and begins now. I will spend more at the beginning, still more in the middle and then more again at the end. That is my plan, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too.

(apologies to Monty Python)

http://www.interocitor.com/archives/000444.html

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
A start:

"Moderator: You have a new plan.

Senator Kerry: Can I just say here Chris for one moment that I have a new plan?

Moderator: Er... exactly. (he gestures but she does not say anything) What is it?

Senator Kerry: Where? (looks round)

Moderator: No, no. Your new plan.

Senator Kerry: Oh, what is my plan?

Moderator: Yes.

Senator Kerry: Oh what is my plan that it is. Well Chris you may well ask me what is my plan.

Moderator: I am asking.

Senator Kerry: Good for you. My word yes. Well Chris, what is it that it is - this plan of mine. Well, this is what it is - my plan that I have, that is to say, which is mine, is mine.

Moderator: (beginning to show signs of exasperation) Yes, I know it's yours, what is it?

Senator Kerry: Where? Oh, what is my plan? This is it. (clears throat at some length) My plan that belongs to me is as follows. (clears throat at great length) This is how it goes. The next thing I"m going to say is my plan. Ready?

Moderator: Yes!

Senator Kerry: My plan by J Kerry. Brackets Senator, brackets. This plan goes as follows and begins now. I will spend more at the beginning, still more in the middle and then more again at the end. That is my plan, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too.

(apologies to Monty Python)

http://www.interocitor.com/archives/000444.html

BUSH: Of course we're doing everything we can to protect America. I wake up every day thinking about how best to protect America. That's my job.

I work with Director Mueller of the FBI; comes in my office when I'm in Washington every morning, talking about how to protect us. There's a lot of really good people working hard to do so.

It's hard work. But, again, I want to tell the American people, we're doing everything we can at home, but you better have a president who chases these terrorists down and bring them to justice before they hurt us again.

(no Monty Python necessary)

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004a.html

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by bilmore
See? Ya'all should'a stuck to the minimum wage.

Uhm, hello! Given the number of posters who will disagree with me when I'm arguing that they should be shot, it seems that anytime nobody argues there is a general consensus on the matter or at least that the underlying reasoning supports a position. Or maybe nobody wants to do a ventriloquist act today.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Uhm, hello! Given the number of posters who will disagree with me when I'm arguing that they should be shot, it seems that anytime nobody argues there is a general consensus on the matter or at least that the underlying reasoning supports a position. Or maybe nobody wants to do a ventriloquist act today.

As a general matter, I'll disagree when anyone argues for shooting anyone else.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
As a general matter, I'll disagree when anyone argues for shooting anyone else.

As a general matter, I think you are correct. But some people needs killin'.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Well, you can't really say they're after truth any more. They've been exposed as the biggest lying liars since Bill "Let Me Loofah Your Loins" O'Liely.

The normally biased lazy media has retraced the swifties tracks. The swifties in the past have attacked the circumstances under which Kerry received his Silver Star for events that happened on February 28, 1969. But abc news has gone to Viet Nam and found witnesses to the fierce firefight that took place. It seems that much more was going on than Kerry firing at "a lone, wounded, fleeing, young Vietcong in a loincloth," as the swifties had claimed.

Funny, the new stories don't match ANY of the old stories, even Kerry's. And one of Kerry's own boater supporters says, um, no:

--------------------

"ABC Can't Do A Hit Piece Any Better Than CBS

Pity the mainstream media, which apparently fell asleep for the last four years and have woken to discover a brand new world. This time it's ABC's turn for embarassment, as their attempted attack on the Swiftvets has foundered on the shoals of a thousand fact-checkers -- and the calm determination of John O'Neill:

Nightline traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A Nightline producer visited them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators. ...
The Vietnamese government initially rejected Nightline's request to visit the village, saying it did not want to somehow influence the U.S. presidential election. Once Nightline explained that the intention was to simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what happened there, permission was granted.


Well, if ABC bought that, then you have to question their political and news judgement. Kerry is considered a hero to the Vietnamese, not as some think because of his testimony in 1971 but in his efforts to normalize relations and trade in the 1990s with the Communists, as well as his efforts to bury the POW/MIA issue that enraged the Village Voice earlier this year. They owe a lot to John Kerry and have every reason to root for his election.

Villagers say this is what they saw:
"Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo Thi Vi told Nightline.

She was only a couple hundred yards away when a Swift boat turned and approached the shore, she said, adding that the boat was unleashing a barrage of gunfire as it approached.

"I ran," she recalled, "Running fast. ... And the Americans came from down there, yelling 'Attack, Attack!' And we ran."

Her husband, Tam, said the man who fired the B-40 rocket was hit in this barrage of gunfire. Then, he said, "he ran about 18 meters before he died, falling dead."

Was the man killed by Kerry or by fire from the Swift boat? It was the heat of battle, Tam said, and he doesn't know exactly how the man with the rocket launcher died. But he knows the man's name -- Ba Thang. He was one of the 12 reinforcements sent to the village by provincial headquarters, and after he died, the firefight continued, according to Tam.

"When the firing started, Ba Thanh was killed," Tam said. "And I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats." According to the after-action report, after beaching the Swift boat, Kerry "chased VC inland, behind hooch, and shot him while he fled, capturing one B-40 rocket launcher, with round in chamber."

None of the villagers seems to be able to say for a fact that they saw an American chase the man who fired the B-40 into the woods and shoot him. Nobody seems to remember that. But they have no problem remembering Ba Thang, the man who has been dismissed by Kerry's detractors as "a lone, wounded, fleeing, young Vietcong in a loincloth." (The description comes from "Unfit for Command," by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill.)

"No, this is not correct," Nguyen Thi Tuoi, 77, told ABC News. "He wore a black pajama. He was strong. He was big and strong. He was about 26 or 27."


The only problem with this account is that it not only differs from the account given by the Swiftvets who were on the scene, it also differs from Kerry's version in his reports, in his biography, and in his autobiography, as John O'Neill pointed out to Ted Koppel during his Nightline appearance. Wizbang describes the way O'Neill laid Ted Koppel out on his own show (via INDC Journal):

When Koppel asked O'Neil to respond to the villagers who he, in an overstatement, said backed Kerry's claims, O'Neil -ever the trial lawyer- did what I did not think possible. He laid Koppel on the canvas.
O'Neil held up his book and read the part where he claimed there was only one VC soldier. THEN he held up the Boston Globe biography of John Kerry and he read the part where IT said there was only one VC solder... Then in a coup de grâce, John O'Neil held up John Kerry's own AUTObiography and read the part where Kerry himself says he was glad there was only one VC soldier because he was not sure what would have happened if there had been "2, 5 or 10 of them." ...

In reply, O'Neil took both Koppel and ABC to task for not asking any of the Swift Boat Vets on to tell their story and for not even telling John Kerry's own version of the story but for only going to communist country and asking our former enemies.


Nor does ABC's embarassment stop there, although failing to even interview American veterans and witnesses in discussing a military engagement and favoring villagers whose only qualification is a self-identification that they were there for this one battle, 35 years ago. Bandit notes that staunch Kerry supporter and defender Doug Reese, who was on Bill Rood's boat during the engagement, also disputes everything ABC reported:

Army advisor, Doug Reese, who was on Bill Rood's boat and just happens to be a staunch Kerry supporter and defender has publicly spoken in detail of what he had witnessed of the dead VC guerrilla minutes after he had been shot by Kerry. It should be noted that Mr. Reese works in Vietnamese Tourism out of the Vietnamese Embassy in Washington D.C.
Mr. Reese was kind enough to document the following with Swift Vets for Truth:

"Anyway, we'll never know much about him [VC killed by Kerry], as he wasn't local like the other guys, who lived right there. The survivors -- local guys -- weren't in a good position to see what was going on with the B-40 guy. For that matter, they don't even know his name."

Mr. Reese's statement says it all about the facts surrounding the dead VC, and he should know since was standing over the dead VC along with Sen. Kerry within 5-8 minutes of the shooting. Unfortunately, ABC was not interested in the facts, just any interview they could use to distort the truth to their viewers.


ABC News makes one thing abundantly clear: despite taking the lead on covering Rathergate, they've apparently learned absolutely nothing from it. Their badly-misfired attack piece should embarass everyone who works in their news division."

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/...ves/002774.php

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Please kiss my ass. No matter what I post, you are going to continue to live in your pipe dream world. That said, if you read the 300 page book (you know, the one written by one of the most respected legal minds around), I'll agree to read a 10 page spread written by some shlub at VF.

Translation:





TM

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
As a general matter, I'll disagree when anyone argues for shooting anyone else.

That was a freebie, and I'm inviting everyone to take their shots. I'll check back tonight to see how badly I'm wounded, if not kilt.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter

Hey, man, you don't talk to the Colonel. You listen to him. The
man's enlarged my mind. He's a poet-warrior in the classic
sense. I mean sometimes he'll, uh, well, you'll say hello to
him, right? And he'll just walk right by you, and he won't even
notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and he'll throw you in
a corner, and he'll say do you know that if is the middle
word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are
losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you -- I mean I'm no, I can't -- I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's, he's a great man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas -- I mean --

He can be terrible, he can be mean, he can be right. He's fighting the war. He's a great man. I mean... I wish I had words. I can tell you the other day he wanted to kill me.

What we got here is, failya ta commu-a-cate

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I'll check back tonight to see how badly I'm wounded, if not kilt.

Seems a harsh punishment for starting a discussion.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Why doesn't anyone ever ask the reverse question, namely, becasue we cannot intervene in ALL the worlds ills and help ALL the world's downtrodden, then why should WE ever intervene???

Why Pat Buchanan, Why?



I'm claiming he was a threat to the world. And whether or not he had the weapons in his possession or not (which everyone believed he did), he fully intended to build them once the sanctions ended (per the Duelfer report).



I don't know, are we? If we did, I take it you wouldn't be in favor?



Did John Birch write the parts in the Duelfer report exposing all of the UNs complicity in the Oil-for-Food scandal?



What, that Sarah Silverman looks like a rat? I just did now. Twice.

I want to address your more important points - but I'm getting killed here. Try to respond more later

Good post, but I don't have time to respond right now. I will do so later.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
[swiftie sleaze]

You fare better when you stick to the issues. Wanna talk about the minimum wage?

[bilmore]

Didn't even notice this before, but it appears that Lizzie Edwards actually answered the "gay from birth, or choice" question that her man Kerry skipped in order to drag Mary Cheney into the fray:

"I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences . . . "

Preference? Not orientation?

Okay, that's clear now.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Your side fucked fairness first and worst.

AH, the dreaded "sloppy seconds" defense -- which has assumed increasing prominence on the right in recent months! Curses!

Well played, sir!

S_A_M

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
You fare better when you stick to the issues.

I like your new debating tactic you've been using the past few days. Simply claiming "you lost", or "I won", even in the face of contrary facts, seems to make you a happier debater. I, for one, am bolstered simply by proximity to such contentment.