Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[SlaveNoMore]

bilmore
Not sure. But, are you saying that Kerry campaigned hard in '84 using his professed desire to kill all those systems, won, and then went on to vote FOR them all? I mean, that memo seems pretty unequivocal.

Flip-Flop

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Here is some back-up on his anti-defense campaigning over the years.

Do the Dems have enough time to do a Torricelli and get this lead balloon off the ticket??

Well, here's the 1984 list from the site slave linked to:

• NUCLEAR FORCES
  * MX Missile --- Cancel --- $5.0 billion
  * B-1 Bomber --- Cancel --- $8.0 billion
  * Anti-satellite system --- Cancel --- $ 99 million
  * Star Wars [sic] --- Cancel --- $1.3 billion
  * Tomahawk Missile --- Reduce by 50 per cent --- $294 million
  
  LAND FORCES
  * AH-64 Helicopters --- Cancel --- $1.4 billion
  * Division Air Defense Gun (DIVAD) --- Cancel --- $638 million
  * Patriot Air Defense Missile --- Cancel --- $1.3 billion
  
  NAVAL FORCES
  * Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser --- Cancel --- $800 million
  * Battleship Reactivation --- Cancel --- $453 million
  
  AIRCRAFT
  * AV-8B Vertical Takeoff and Landing Aircraft --- Cancel --- $1.0 billion
  * F-15 Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $2.3 billion
  * F-14A Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $1.0 billion
  * F-14D Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $286 million
  * Phoenix Air-to-Air Missile --- Cancel --- $432 million
  * Sparrow Air-to-Air Missile

Assuming that this is accurate, and that Kerry wanted to get rid of all of the fundining, I'd have to say that he was right on:

the MX (expensive and vulnerable -- remember Dense Pack? the MX trains? Jesus. only a first-strike weapon -- Midgetman and the Trident SLBMs were a much better deterant);

the B-1 (more expensive and less effective than cruise missiles for the air portion of the three sided nuclear force, and virtually useless for conventional munitions)

Star Wars (no comment necessary)

DIVAD a/k/a the Sergeant York anti-aircraft system (didn't even work in rigged tests, and which was finally killed by the second Reagan Administration -- or maybe Bush I -- despite wailing of the contractors)

Battleship reactivation (hey, the gazillians we spent for the New Jersey really came in quite handy for pounding the Druze militia in Lebanon in 1984, didn't it?).

AV-8B Vertical Takeoff and Landing Aircraft --don't remeber this one. May have been a replacement for the Harrier that didn't work.

[SlaveNoMore]

sgtclub
tell her to go to instapundit - he links to all of the good ones, and some on the left as well.

The Corner on National Review Online is also quite good.

2 months ago, I would have recommended Sullivan, but since then, I think he drank some spiked Kool-Aid or something.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Well, here's the 1984 list from the site slave linked to:

• NUCLEAR FORCES
  * MX Missile --- Cancel --- $5.0 billion
  * B-1 Bomber --- Cancel --- $8.0 billion
  * Anti-satellite system --- Cancel --- $ 99 million
  * Star Wars [sic] --- Cancel --- $1.3 billion
  * Tomahawk Missile --- Reduce by 50 per cent --- $294 million
  
  LAND FORCES
  * AH-64 Helicopters --- Cancel --- $1.4 billion
  * Division Air Defense Gun (DIVAD) --- Cancel --- $638 million
  * Patriot Air Defense Missile --- Cancel --- $1.3 billion
  
  NAVAL FORCES
  * Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser --- Cancel --- $800 million
  * Battleship Reactivation --- Cancel --- $453 million
  
  AIRCRAFT
  * AV-8B Vertical Takeoff and Landing Aircraft --- Cancel --- $1.0 billion
  * F-15 Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $2.3 billion
  * F-14A Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $1.0 billion
  * F-14D Fighter Aircraft --- Cancel --- $286 million
  * Phoenix Air-to-Air Missile --- Cancel --- $432 million
  * Sparrow Air-to-Air Missile

Assuming that this is accurate, and that Kerry wanted to get rid of all of the fundining, I'd have to say that he was right on:

the MX (expensive and vulnerable -- remember Dense Pack? the MX trains? Jesus. only a first-strike weapon -- Midgetman and the Trident SLBMs were a much better deterant);

the B-1 (more expensive and less effective than cruise missiles for the air portion of the three sided nuclear force, and virtually useless for conventional munitions)

Star Wars (no comment necessary)

DIVAD a/k/a the Sergeant York anti-aircraft system (didn't even work in rigged tests, and which was finally killed by the second Reagan Administration -- or maybe Bush I -- despite wailing of the contractors)

Battleship reactivation (hey, the gazillians we spent for the New Jersey really came in quite handy for pounding the Druze militia in Lebanon in 1984, didn't it?).

AV-8B Vertical Takeoff and Landing Aircraft --don't remeber this one. May have been a replacement for the Harrier that didn't work.

1 cruise missiles are on the list.
2 your point is well taken. lots of these things aren't worth the money. but you didn't really hit all of the cuts.
3 why do you think Star Wars isn't worth mentioning?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Assuming that this is accurate, and that Kerry wanted to get rid of all of the fundining, I'd have to say that he was right on:

OK, than he should take credit for that. Yes I voted against these programs and I was right to do so. Dollars to doughnuts he won't.

eft

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The Corner on National Review Online is also quite good.

2 months ago, I would have recommended Sullivan, but since then, I think he drank some spiked Kool-Aid or something.

She linked to Sullivan on Zell Miller's speech earlier, so I think that's covered, but thanks for the Corner link!

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
2 months ago, I would have recommended Sullivan, but since then, I think he drank some spiked Kool-Aid or something.

Agreed. Something happended to him. I can't even read the site any longer.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Flip-Flop

And what was W doing in '84?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
And what was W doing in '84?

Coke.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
"...But none of those were votes against specific weapons systems. Kerry's critics might just as well say he was voting to fire the entire Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps."

So you ADMIT it now! You think America should vote for someone who has supported the systematic dismantelling of the entire US Armed Forces! Why then, even the French would have a shot at conquering us (not a good shot, unless Kerry also succeedes in destroying the Second Amendment and pries my gun from my cold dead hands).

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
1 cruise missiles are on the list.
2 your point is well taken. lots of these things aren't worth the money. but you didn't really hit all of the cuts. why do you think Star Wars isn't worth mentioning?

1. Cruise missiles were listed as having funding reduced, not eliminated.

2. (a) I'm not quite sure what the list is -- I doubt that it is a list of programs he wanted eliminated in 1984, as opposed to funding he wanted eliminated/reduced in 1984. As Dick Cheney said in 1992, "you've directed me to buy more M1s, F14s, and F16s—all great systems … but we have enough of them." See http://www.slate.com/id/2106119/

Kerry, like a lot of Democrats in 1984, may well have thought that the large build-up in defense spending that began after Ivan rolled into Afghanistan was enough to meet the threats we were facing at the time.

(b) Star Wars isn't worth mentioning because I don't think that an attack on Kerry for opposing it would hurt his chances of being elected.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sgtclub
OK, than he should take credit for that. Yes I voted against these programs and I was right to do so. Dollars to doughnuts he won't.

eft

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Zell mentioned DIVAD last night.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Coke.

And now he's against it? Bush flip flopped!

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
And now he's against it? Bush flip flopped!

He was for it before he was against it.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
And now he's against it? Bush flip flopped!

It wasn't a flip flop, there's a good explaination. the decision came as part of a funding cut. Further coke purchases were bundled in an expenditure package with having to hire a divorce lawyer. It wasn't the coke he was electing not to buy. Did Laura take cocaine- i haven't heard her tied to it, but they were married.