Fashion Board 3-5-04 to 4-6-04

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
This topic wore out its welcome over there (not kid-oriented), but has not been discussed here for at least 6 weeks:

How do you feel about elevator etiquette rules and door-holding rules that treat women differently than men?

I tend to think that it is crap and whoever reaches the door first should open it, whoever is in the front of the elevator should exit first. My memories of living in the northeast is that this is the way things worked there and women are getting along just fine, thank you. Others claim that NYC has the fucked up - men in the front of the elevator somehow try to stand aside for women to exit first, but I've never seen it there. Here in Dallas, men are glared at if they dare to enter or exit an elevator first. WTF? All I want is the people around me to move so that they aren't in my way. The most efficient way to achieve this is for everyone to act the same and not have some weird chivalry code that requires men to stay in my way instead of moving along.

I see this quite a lot in NYC, actually: the men standing half-way aside in front of the door to "let" the women in the back out first.

I also agree that it is total BS. It is facially idiotic because it obviously does not work. But I disagree that this is a problem caused by "elevator etiquette rules and door-holding rules that treat women differently than men." It is not correct "ladies first" procedure. This is not a situation comparable to entering a building through a door. Instead, compare it to a different situation in which men and women may be together in a small, confined conveyance with limited portals for exit (such as - a car). Ladies do not clamber over men who are closer to the door to get out first (nor do men sitting farther from the door than ladies clamber over the ladies to open the doors for them). Men next to the door may get out first, and then hold the door open from outside (and from out of the way) until all ladies are safely delivered from the conveyance (and then, if they are not themselves exiting the conveyance at that time, they may get back in), but this is a secondary consideration compared to just getting the hell out of the way.

So it is with elevators. Those in front get out first. Those in front but not getting out then should step clear away from the door - within the car if there is plenty of room, or otherwise out of the car entirely, to let those in back get out. (It is good form, obviously, to move yourself to the back of the car if you are getting off at a higher floor, but I think NYCers have a problem with this because it means they can't stand next to the buttons and push "door closed" maniacly every time the elevator stops, hence the prevalence of half-assed "waiting" for ladies in back to get out before the men move at all here.)

But I blame a general lack of etiquette training - people have a vague idea that there is a precedence/protective etiquette rule called "ladies first," but they have no clue what it means other than what it is commonly called, which they then procede to take too literally. The point is to make womens' passage through the world as effortless and easy as possible. It is called ladies first because ladies often end up going first when men clear the way for them to do so. In practice, that means:

Men open doors and let ladies go through first.
Men let ladies go through revolving doors first and push (or pretend to push) the door around for them from behind.
Men let ladies go first when being led to a restaurant table or theater seats IF an usher or host leads and clears the way, but if there isn't one the man leads to clear the way for the lady (and then lets her go into the row or sit first, having gotten her there safely)
Men don't sit if there is a lady standing (guys, seriously, try this on a date: stand up whenever your date stands to go to the ladies room or whatever, you will get laid).
Men, dropping a lady at her home, not only get out, walk around the car, open the door for her and accompany her all the way to her door, they accept the door key from the lady after she has fished it out of her bag and unlock and open it for her before handing the key back (never, of course, presuming to suggest entry).
Men let ladies go up stairs first but lead ladies down stairs (presumably so he can catch her if she falls).

and there are lots of other variations, including:

Men clear the way for ladies getting off the elevator by GETTING OFF THE ELEVATOR FIRST IF THEY ARE IN THE WAY!!!

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Perhaps if you looked at the whole chick rather than part by part, it might seem a little less obvious.

Of course you could just be a little more discreet about it.

it takes a tough man to make a tender chick, or a chick with all her parts tender.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Is she hot?

Since you are a reptile, I will assume that you find molting hot, which (due to getting a little too happy about there being sun and good weather) I am now doing. Any advice on dealing with this? I itch. And it's just kind of disgusting. I figured you would be the expert . . .

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Perhaps if you looked at the whole chick rather than part by part, it might seem a little less obvious.

Of course you could just be a little more discreet about it.

It doesn't help that your parts are more in plain view than our parts, unless we're wearing some tight black jeans that show off our packages. It's been said before here, but women get screwed regarding the physical assessment in-a-glance tactic; you can't really tell if we're built, fat, super-skinny or well-hung just by looking at us with normal clothes on. Of course, if we were all allergic to sleeves like Nick Lachey, things would be a bit easier.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
As I explained on the parent board at some length (am not going to reproduce here) . . .

Intentional pun?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
There is no set rule. It's all a pain in the ass.

Elevators
Get on and get off. There is no need to wait for women to do so before you. It makes no sense and forces others to wait while some woman is navigating her way to the front of the elevator while the man, who is standing directly in front of the door, moves aside before exiting. What's worse is that there is no one rule, which means some men try to fight their way around "polite guy" too, because they have no idea he wants to get off. But what is stupidest about polite guy is that he will let women enter the elevator first, putting them in the back of the elevator. Then he will let them exit first, forcing them to fight around everyone else to get out, before he exits. It makes absolutely no sense.

TM

Dissent. I agree that if the elevator is crowded and a man is toward the front, he should get off first to clear the way. But, if the elevator is not crowded, the man must step to the side and allow the women to exit first. If a man does not step aside for a woman on an elevator, I will usely make some form of snidely condescending remark. E.g., "Well, *that* was polite." It never fails to get an appreciative chuckle from the others on the elevator. I once grabbed a man who literally was pushing himself in front of a woman to exit the elevator and said, "Why don't you let the lady exit first." The man turned beet red and stammered an apology. The women gave me a heartfelt smile and then paused for a few seconds outside the elevator and handed me her business card before walking off.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
It doesn't help that your parts are more in plain view than our parts, unless we're wearing some tight black jeans that show off our packages. It's been said before here, but women get screwed on the physical assessment in-a-glance tactic; you can't really tell if we're built, fat, super-skinny or well-hung just by looking at us with normal clothes on. Of course, if we were all allergic to sleeves like Nick Lachey, things would be a bit easier.

WTF, do you wear a poncho to work every day? Or do all the women you work with wear skintight pants? Perhaps you lack an ass, but for those who don't, your trousers (pants, whatever) drape across them quite nicely if the underlying ass is nice. And shirts reveal shoulders etc. etc.

where is it?

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I've never encountered a woman who would not push the revolving door though. there are sometimes awkward moments by the revolving doors if a woman thinks she should be allowed in first. This, of course, would be counterproductive to her if she was unwilling to push it.

That sounds like bizare behavior, to me. Of course the woman pushes the revolving door herself - to have someone else actually do it behind you leads to concussions. But it is like having your chair pushed in at dinner by a gentleman - he can pretend to help by applying mild pressure to the back of the chair, but the woman reaches between her knees to grab the chair and does all the work by crab-walking her way to the table dragging it to where she wants it. (And then says "thank you" for the vital assistance. ) In both cases, you don't actually want to let someone who may be clueless push things around behind you so they can smack into you from behind or jam you into a ledge at gut-level. Or, you may end up sitting there waiting forever. Just a bad idea all around.

But it is nice to make men feel useful.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
where is it?

If you click on "The Fashionable" (either at the top of this page or the heading to the left on the main Lawtalkers forums page), you'll see it. It is a separate thread under the FB heading.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
It doesn't help that your parts are more in plain view than our parts, unless we're wearing some tight black jeans that show off our packages. It's been said before here, but women get screwed regarding the physical assessment in-a-glance tactic; you can't really tell if we're built, fat, super-skinny or well-hung just by looking at us with normal clothes on. Of course, if we were all allergic to sleeves like Nick Lachey, things would be a bit easier.

You are all whifferific. Except Paigow.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
WTF, do you wear a poncho to work every day? Or do all the women you work with wear skintight pants? Perhaps you lack an ass, but for those who don't, your trousers (pants, whatever) drape across them quite nicely if the underlying ass is nice. And shirts reveal shoulders etc. etc.

Of course. I didn't say it was impossible. Relatively speaking though, it's much easier for us.

And what else to dress shirts reveal besides shoulders? Pecs? No. Arms? No. Gut? Only if it's fairly large.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, especially when a person enters the door first but stops pushing when another person enters.

Solution: Push faster than that person walks.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
[Elevator stuff.]

There's a guy in my firm who is notoriously, um, "crooked" is probably too charitable a term, but I'll go with it. He's a very senior dude.

Anyway, I'm on a crowded elevator and at some point, the above-referenced "gentleman" gets on. Several floors later, a colleague of mine is getting off the elevator. He steps off, faces the crowd of people in the elevator and says, "Everyone, I advise each of you to make sure you still have your wallet" (while pretending to check for his in his jacket pocket.)

Everyone was stunned, and spent the rest of the ride stifling laughter -- and as people alighted from the car at their respective stops, their guffaws could be heard after the doors closed.

It almost made you feel sorry for the guy.


I said almost.




Edited for clarity -- one hopes.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
You are all whifferific. Except Paigow.

I was only making a tangential post to the subject of your post. It can't be a whiff if my comment was regarding the subject of your post and not your post itself, right?

Methinks I doth protest too much.