A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
Syria has long held Lebanon in a rather tyrannical, despotic grip.

Lebanese are just now starting to feel emboldened to try to expell the foreign invaders.

How sad that you think of this as "acting out".

Did you get reinvolved in those orgs you had decided were making you kinda weird? Because you are really offensively patronizing today.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Fuck you. My cousin is in Iraq right now. Fighting for "freedom." So fuck you. Drink the kool-aid, you sheep.

If you want to be able to post such banal shit as "freedom and liberty don't mean anything anymore", then you'd better prepare yourself for replies.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Did you get reinvolved in those orgs you had decided were making you kinda weird? Because you are really offensively patronizing today.

What's offensively patronizing (to me) is how someone can make a joke like that about people who are trying to free themselves. If I'm supposed to chuckle along with you and laugh at the idiot neocons who support such a thing, well, sorry.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I can't believe that anyone on this board thinks that spreading democracy around the world would be a bad thing. But we probably differ about

- whether Bush is trying to go about it in the right way
- whether Bush is trying to go about it
- whether Syria's FOX-reported withdrawal from Lebanon and other good things that happen in the world have much of anything to do with US policy
- whether continuing repression in many of our closest allies (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc.) has much of anything to do with US policy

The thing that struck me about club's original post that doesn't seem to have struck anyone else is what a non-sequitur it was. Lebanon has been struggling with its government for years. Syria's troops brought stability, if not political freedom, but to suggest that freedom is somehow on the march just because Syrian troops might be leaving just does not follow, any more than to suggest that the departure of our troops from Iraq would usher in a new day of policy liberty and freedom.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
What's offensively patronizing (to me) is how someone can make a joke like that about people who are trying to free themselves. If I'm supposed to chuckle along with you and laugh at the idiot neocons who support such a thing, well, sorry.

I didn't say that. You are just coming off as weird like you were for a while, and at the (unbelievably welcome) end to that period, you attributed it to being involved with the Moonies or something.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Lebanon has been struggling with its government for years. Syria's troops brought stability, if not political freedom, but to suggest that freedom is somehow on the march just because Syrian troops might be leaving just does not follow, any more than to suggest that the departure of our troops from Iraq would usher in a new day of policy liberty and freedom.

Saddam brough stability to Iraq, and to the entire region as well.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I didn't say that. You are just coming off as weird like you were for a while, and at the (unbelievably welcome) end to that period, you attributed it to being involved with the Moonies or something.

Man, did you read that wrong.

[Adder]

Originally posted by bilmore
Syria has long held Lebanon in a rather tyrannical, despotic grip.

Lebanese are just now starting to feel emboldened to try to expell the foreign invaders.

How sad that you think of this as "acting out".

You shouldn't read too much into the phrase. My lament is that America has become a country willing to invade anyone we don't like, not the Lebanese desire to improve their lot.

That said, Lebanon is a historical mess and its hard to say who the good guys are.

I am just continually amazed how comfortable we have become with the idea of being an empire.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by bilmore
If you want to be able to post such banal shit as "freedom and liberty don't mean anything anymore", then you'd better prepare yourself for replies.

Whatever. They mean a lot to me. They don't mean shit to this administration. They are used for marketing purposes and fearmongering. They are a vehicle for this administration to sell us a load of crap. That was my point. They are abused by this administration. Your monkey has turned them into watered-down management-speak.

The founding fathers would be embarrassed.

Will a real republican please stand up?

[Adder]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
What IS it with you PEOPLE and your CANADIANNESS? gwinky is not going to fuck you just for saying "eh"

I gotta play all the angles I can, hoser.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
Man, did you read that wrong.

"the Moonies" part was meant as a joke. Is the whole stick as attractive as that bit that we can see protruding from your butt?

Whatever. Forget it.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Adder
That said, Lebanon is a historical mess and its hard to say who the good guys are.

Well, they've got their own christian v. muslim thing to resolve, for sure. But, Syria's occupation wasn't done for the benefit of Lebanon - it was for Syria's tactical situation vis-a-viz Israel. It's safe to say that Bashar ain't the good guy.

I am just continually amazed how comfortable we have become with the idea of being an empire.

Where does that concept come in in re: Lebanon? So far, it's a Lebanese fight.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
Saddam brough stability to Iraq, and to the entire region as well.

Only if you think the invasion of Kuwait represents stability.

I think we all agree that stability is not the only end. If that's your point, OK.

[Adder]

Originally posted by bilmore
What's offensively patronizing (to me) is how someone can make a joke like that about people who are trying to free themselves. If I'm supposed to chuckle along with you and laugh at the idiot neocons who support such a thing, well, sorry.

No, bilmore, you are supposed to share the fear the the neocons sounds like ever other empirialist in history, yet don't seem to realize it. That they actually think they are a benevolent force that is saving the heathens. That they think they can make the world a better place by imposing their power and will on others to show them the way and then everyone will be happy.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think we all agree that stability is not the only end. If that's your point, OK.

That was point one. Point two was that there was nothing good, for the Lebanese, about Syria's occupation, and casting them out will result in more freedom for the Lebanese.