Waiting for Fitzgerald - Page 235

Gattigap · 10-21-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Hi

Hi!

Sexual Harassment Panda · 10-21-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Outline a theory for how a single cell mutates into an animal having organ systems. Then sketch out a test protocal.

Just tell me that post #3495 was too brief for you. I can expound if you need me to.

Hank Chinaski · 10-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Just tell me that post #3495 was too brief for you. I can expound if you need me to.

Link please.

Sexual Harassment Panda · 10-21-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Link please.

As requested.

soup sandwich · 10-21-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Dunno. Should we ridicule those who think God does?

Should we ridicule those who introduce untestable ideas into a scientific discussion? No, but they should be sarcastically told
"Thanks, pal. That really helps move the ball on this problem".

Science is problem solving. Simply saying "God's will!" may offer some comfort, but it does not move the ball.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Is that better or worse than using our imagination to dream up an answer?

Solutions come from imagination. Using a scientific approach ideas are tested and the poor ones are discarded or modified. The gaps are identified and hopefully filled in later.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
even intro to Physics is a year long course. Any particular part? Maybe one that directly contradicts a portion of the bible?

Certainly all physics students learn E=mc^2 at some point. Should we not include a discussion of how there may be an intelligent designer who is holding subatomic particles together in a non-Einsteinian fashion? Shouldn't we present all views? In economics shouldn't we discuss how an intelligent desiger controls the markets? We don't and you know why? It's lazy and sloppy science.

Regarding the bible, shouldn't we be equally outraged at all unprovable ideas regardless of whether they contradict the bible? And what is so contradictory anyway? "God made the animals". How he did it is theologically irrelevant, but scientifically interesting.

What exactly is the hangup? Creation in six days? Making Adam from dust?

Maybe the theory you really have a problem with is not evolution, but rather "abiogenesis", which is the theory that life can arise spontaneously from non-life molecules under proper conditions.

Evolution is just a theory, but it's a useful theory. It's used every time a scientist compares the amino acid sequences of a protein from different species. Abiogenesis? Well, that's just to tweak the bible-thumpers. If you want to wage a war on abiogenesis I'm on board.

taxwonk · 10-21-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
lat night I attended an open house at my kid's school. the Philosphy class went ahead as if it was just another class.

The topic was "Should evolution AND Creationism be taught in Biology Class." The fellow traveler my liberal district has empowered to attempt and brainwash my children, told us of Schools, as she put it, "in - well I'm sure you can guess in which states where they don't teach evolution at all, but only teach Creationism." Now i didn't call bullshit, but I don't think that true is it?

Anyway her impartial prompts kept coming back to be asking the one religous kid in the class "doesn't it violate separation of Church/ state to teach creationism?"

So i finally ask her "What was the purpose of the separation, and in partiucular in schools?" She says we don't want to force a religion on people and if we teach Jesus to a class that is 90% Christian it's not fair to the other 10%." So then i had her-
"But how is that different than teaching evolution to a class that includes this young man who doesn't want to hear it?"

Ole' Stalin had no answer.

The answer to your question is no, there are no states that teach creationism to the exclusion of evolution.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what there is to teach about creationism, other than to note that there are a variety of creation myths that people around the world subscribe to, and belief in them is essentially a matter of faith.

Hank Chinaski · 10-21-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soup sandwich
Solutions come from imagination. Using a scientific approach ideas are tested and the poor ones are discarded or modified. The gaps are identified and hopefully filled in later.

Outline a theory for how a single cell mutates into an animal having organ systems. Then sketch out a test protocal.

Sexual Harassment Panda · 10-21-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soup sandwich
Maybe the theory you really have a problem with is not evolution, but rather "abiogenesis", which is the theory that life can arise spontaneously from non-life molecules under proper conditions.

What defines a living creature? Is a virus alive? A viroid? Likely a prion is not, but that cuts the legs out from divisions based on self-replication. Certainly the experiments of Stanley Miller show that random construction of higher-order molecules under primordial conditions was possible, but that doesn't get you to a membrane-encapsulated self-replicating autonomous organism.

Hey, it's Science Friday!

Sexual Harassment Panda · 10-21-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Outline a theory for how a single cell mutates into an animal having organ systems. Then sketch out a test protocal.

We'll take your inability to move the ball forward as giving up. Please put this one in the "L" column.

Hank Chinaski · 10-21-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
The answer to your question is no, there are no states that teach creationism to the exclusion of evolution.

Can I get the teacher fired for saying there are?

Hank Chinaski · 10-21-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
We'll take your inability to move the ball forward as giving up. Please put this one in the "L" column.

Your. Link. Is. Broken. Which. Ironically. Is. What. Is. Wrong. With. Your. Argument.

taxwonk · 10-21-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Did I say I was middle class? No. I'm upper middle class. But thats not rich. I'm a few hundred grand a year away from rich, and that chasm is a huge one to bridge...

Two week vacation? I don't know anyone, rich or poor, who can swing that gig anymore.

How do you cure wealth disparity long term? You can't do it. Its impossible. Wealth disparity is a natural consequence of capitalism. Capitalism is our system. Is it imperfect? Yes, but what's the option? Wealth redistribution? That's socialism. "Progressive taxation" is a soft way of saying "force the better off to give money to the less well off.” Taxes pay for the state - for infrastructure, for minimum benefits such as welfare.

Taxes are not the social reengineering tool which the Left seems to think they are

I think you've got me all wrong, Sebby. I don't believe that taxes are a tool for social engineering. Progressive taxation is a means of wealth distribution, but I disagree that it's socialism. I think that progressive taxation provides a means for maintaining infrastructure and a basic safety net. I don't advocate equality of outcomes. Hell, even if I believed in it as a positive good, I would recognize the fact that it isn't an achievable goal.

My only reason for addressing wealth disparity was to decry the fact that the current administration, among its other spendthrift habits, is going full-guns attempting to reverse progressive taxation, and that that is part of what is creating the widening gap in our soiciety.

Sexual Harassment Panda · 10-21-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
The answer to your question is no, there are no states that teach creationism to the exclusion of evolution.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what there is to teach about creationism, other than to note that there are a variety of creation myths that people around the world subscribe to, and belief in them is essentially a matter of faith.

If there are any states that do that, then the Christian mullahs truly have won.

But that doesn't rule out that this is effectively what is going on in individual school districts, which I would be willing to bet is true - but I have no evidence yet to confirm this.

Hank Chinaski · 10-21-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda

But that doesn't rule out that this is effectively what is going on in individual school districts, which I would be willing to bet is true - but I have no evidence yet to confirm this.

but we could articulate a test to determine if it is true, right?

taxwonk · 10-21-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Before calling anyone stupid please explain how single celled organisms could develop organ systems?

Before dragging this one out of the closet again, please show us a picture of God, and proof that the subject is the one true God.