Firms and Salary Information - Ohio - Page 24

baltassoc · 03-07-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redheaded stepkid
I have talked to some of the other first years and the general feel is that the only people who know are partners or perhaps very senior associates. The perception here is that it would be uncool in a big way to be asking about such things. Is your firm open about this info?

That's because your fellow associates are pussies. Excluding hard numbers, the partners don't care.

It's not about setting up an official meeting with a partner asking for their financials. Next time you're having lunch with your mentor or some other partner, or at the monthly firm "cocktail hour" or summer associate outing, or whatever, just ask one of them casually how partnership works. "I was wondering, what does it mean to make partner: do you buy in, or what? How does that work? Just curious." You aren't likely to get numbers, but you're going to get a better idea of what your firm's structure is than you will here.

Try to think of the question in the abstract: you are interested in a real-world example of how the theoretical structures you learned about in law school play out.

redheaded stepkid · 03-07-2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
That's because your fellow associates are pussies. Excluding hard numbers, the partners don't care.

It's not about setting up an official meeting with a partner asking for their financials. Next time you're having lunch with your mentor or some other partner, or at the monthly firm "cocktail hour" or summer associate outing, or whatever, just ask one of them casually how partnership works. "I was wondering, what does it mean to make partner: do you buy in, or what? How does that work? Just curious." You aren't likely to get numbers, but you're going to get a better idea of what your firm's structure is than you will here.

Try to think of the question in the abstract: you are interested in a real-world example of how the theoretical structures you learned about in law school play out.

I agree with the "pussies" comment, generally, although we are lawyers, isn't the "risk aversion" affect a genetic defect common to us all? But your advice is otherwise well taken. Maybe I can get some testosterone pills to boost my nerve.

redheaded stepkid · 03-08-2006, 09:28 PM

I have been trying to get involved in activities with the local (city) bar in order to lay a networking foundation for the future. Do people find that this process is better accomplished (at an early stage in the career) by joining lots of committees and going to a lot of events or just focusing on a select (but most relevant to your practice area) few?

Also, any real benefit (at an early career stage) in becoming active with the ABA or is that something for more established lawyers?

[and before anyone says ask in your firm, I have, but I am trying to seek an broader array of opinions/experiences-hell, I'll even read what Hank has to say........]

Thanks.

andViolins · 03-09-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redheaded stepkid
I have been trying to get involved in activities with the local (city) bar in order to lay a networking foundation for the future. Do people find that this process is better accomplished (at an early stage in the career) by joining lots of committees and going to a lot of events or just focusing on a select (but most relevant to your practice area) few?

Also, any real benefit (at an early career stage) in becoming active with the ABA or is that something for more established lawyers?

[and before anyone says ask in your firm, I have, but I am trying to seek an broader array of opinions/experiences-hell, I'll even read what Hank has to say........]

Thanks.

If you ask five lawyers about the best way to establish contacts for future business, you will get 6 different answers. Perhaps seven. Some will tell you that getting involved in the local bar and its committees is a complete waste of time. Others will drone on about how it was their bar activities and work on a specific cimmittee that created their whole book of business. I've heard rainmakers say, "develop a good niche or skill, and surround yourself with people who need that skill." Nice. Like a fortune cookie. Another stated, "get involved with activities that you like, you will develop your clients from those activities." Well, all those days at the strip club haven't done jack for me. Like I said, everyone who you consider to be a good rainmaker has gotten there a different way. If there were one good cookie-cutter approach, then everyone would have a $2 million dollar book of business, but that just ain't reality.

As a first year at biglaw, I think the most important thing that you can do, right now, is good quality work for the partners in your firm. They, the partners, are your clients. If you do good work, they use you again, and as a junior associate, billable hours are the key. Don't sweat the other stuff at this point. If you want to get involved in bar activities, do it because it is something that interests you, don't do it because you think you have to. At least not now.

That's my .02 on the subject. However, you will likely get lots of other "expert" opinions.

aV

baltassoc · 03-09-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redheaded stepkid
I have been trying to get involved in activities with the local (city) bar in order to lay a networking foundation for the future. Do people find that this process is better accomplished (at an early stage in the career) by joining lots of committees and going to a lot of events or just focusing on a select (but most relevant to your practice area) few?

Also, any real benefit (at an early career stage) in becoming active with the ABA or is that something for more established lawyers?

[and before anyone says ask in your firm, I have, but I am trying to seek an broader array of opinions/experiences-hell, I'll even read what Hank has to say........]

Thanks.

aV is absolutely right. In the short term, unless you are related to someone or get really, really lucky, you have zero chance of bringing in the type of client your big firm wants (if you're BIGLAW, that's likely Fortune 1000, or at least Russell 3000), so emphasis should be on building the skills necessary to bring in that type of client.

To address your questions more directly, however, I think you need to look at your own personality somewhat. If you are good at working a room (I am not), then going for more breadth is probably a good thing. If not, you are probably better off concentrating on one or two committees and becoming known and respected in those committees. I'd suggest whichever committee is closest to what you do, plus the Young Lawyers division/committee/whatever.

That being said, committee networking is often most effective for people in boutiques rather than large firms, because it's networking for referals from other attorneys. Attorneys don't make (many) referals to big firms, because they worry about their client walking off for all their legal matters.

You may be better off getting involved in a trade association related to what you do (for example, a building contractors association, or an advertising association, or a technology association: whatever makes sense for what you do).

So, take a step back and think about what kind of clients your firm is going to want. Then ask yourself how you might get those companies to give you business. The task looks more daunting when you cut down the potential client list that way, but at least you aren't chasing up blind alleys.

One thing is for certain: all of this takes a while. I've seen attorneys work at this for years (including me) with no results, then suddenly BAM, people start calling.

baltassoc · 03-09-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redheaded stepkid

[and before anyone says ask in your firm, I have, but I am trying to seek an broader array of opinions/experiences-hell, I'll even read what Hank has to say........]

Thanks.

Also, my experience at BIGLAW was that these types of questions aren't always appreciated at your level: partners perceive it as a distraction away from the important goals of getting you up to speed as a lawyer and billing. Not that you shouldn't ask, but don't be surprised if the response is a little cold or vague.

redheaded stepkid · 03-09-2006, 12:06 PM

Thanks Balt and Violins, I appreciate the advice.

Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Also, my experience at BIGLAW was that these types of questions aren't always appreciated at your level: partners perceive it as a distraction away from the important goals of getting you up to speed as a lawyer and billing. Not that you shouldn't ask, but don't be surprised if the response is a little cold or vague.

That is exactly why I would rather ask the questions here. As I wrote to Hank (I think it was Hank) bad reviews here won't impact my ability to pay the rent or buy beer......

andViolins · 05-19-2006, 10:28 AM

Now this is how to practice some mother f-ing labor law!!

Labor talks at Schwebel's result in claims of assault
Friday, May 19, 2006

Negotiations on a contract for Schwebel's Bakery workers turned testy last week when a partner from the management firm of Duvin Cahn & Hutton allegedly attacked a labor attorney from behind, choking and punching him until he brought the lawyer to the floor.

John Masters, representing bakery workers in Teamsters Local 336, charges Duvin lawyer Stephen Sferra "viciously and violently attacked" him as he tried to leave a meeting, according to charges filed Wednesday with the National Labor Relations Board.

The NLRB complaint says that Schwebel's representatives approved the assault by standing and watching the attack. Sferra, 44, continued to violently choke Masters until he was physically restrained by a Local 336 member, according to the account in the complaint.

Boston Heights police and an emergency medical squad were called to the scene. Masters, 48, was not hospitalized, but he says he has injuries to his neck, back and shoulder.

The outburst came at a May 9 bargaining session after Masters told Sferra he could not evaluate Schwebel's pension proposals without information that Masters said the company had refused to provide. In three other NLRB charges filed with the assault claim, the union says Schwebel's has withheld financial and actuarial data it needs to discuss issues raised in bargaining.

The two sides are negotiating a new contract for 139 members of Local 336 who make bakery goods at a Schwebel's plant in Cuyahoga Falls. The union has been working under a contract extension that expires at midnight Monday.

Sferra was in Chicago Thursday and could not be reached for comment.

In an exchange of letters Wednesday, Bob Duvin apologized to Masters for Sferra's "unprofessional and unacceptable part in this experience. It is also my opinion that your provocation was extraordinarily and stunningly unprofessional."

Duvin added that he was saddened by Masters' "apparent uncontrollable rage" at Duvin and his firm.

Duvin would not say in a telephone interview what the provocation was. He stoutly defended Sferra.

"Steve Sferra, who, standing on his toes, is maybe 5-7, 5-7½ and 150 pounds, is both a lawyer and a man," Duvin said. "Lawyers ought to resist [provocation], but sometimes a man can't."

Masters said only that he hoped Sferra "receives whatever treatment he needs to control what in my opinion is a significant anger problem."

In a letter to Duvin, he dismissed the management attorney's description of events as "fictitious and self-serving."

He also said it was a mystery why Duvin should think he harbored ill will. "I can't even remember the last time you won a case against me," he wrote.

A bargaining session set for today is to be joined by a federal mediator.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...450.xml&coll=2

aV

spookyfish · 05-19-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
Now this is how to practice some mother f-ing labor law!!

Labor talks at Schwebel's result in claims of assault
Friday, May 19, 2006

Negotiations on a contract for Schwebel's Bakery workers turned testy last week when a partner from the management firm of Duvin Cahn & Hutton allegedly attacked a labor attorney from behind, choking and punching him until he brought the lawyer to the floor.

John Masters, representing bakery workers in Teamsters Local 336, charges Duvin lawyer Stephen Sferra "viciously and violently attacked" him as he tried to leave a meeting, according to charges filed Wednesday with the National Labor Relations Board.

The NLRB complaint says that Schwebel's representatives approved the assault by standing and watching the attack. Sferra, 44, continued to violently choke Masters until he was physically restrained by a Local 336 member, according to the account in the complaint.

Boston Heights police and an emergency medical squad were called to the scene. Masters, 48, was not hospitalized, but he says he has injuries to his neck, back and shoulder.

The outburst came at a May 9 bargaining session after Masters told Sferra he could not evaluate Schwebel's pension proposals without information that Masters said the company had refused to provide. In three other NLRB charges filed with the assault claim, the union says Schwebel's has withheld financial and actuarial data it needs to discuss issues raised in bargaining.

The two sides are negotiating a new contract for 139 members of Local 336 who make bakery goods at a Schwebel's plant in Cuyahoga Falls. The union has been working under a contract extension that expires at midnight Monday.

Sferra was in Chicago Thursday and could not be reached for comment.

In an exchange of letters Wednesday, Bob Duvin apologized to Masters for Sferra's "unprofessional and unacceptable part in this experience. It is also my opinion that your provocation was extraordinarily and stunningly unprofessional."

Duvin added that he was saddened by Masters' "apparent uncontrollable rage" at Duvin and his firm.

Duvin would not say in a telephone interview what the provocation was. He stoutly defended Sferra.

"Steve Sferra, who, standing on his toes, is maybe 5-7, 5-7½ and 150 pounds, is both a lawyer and a man," Duvin said. "Lawyers ought to resist [provocation], but sometimes a man can't."

Masters said only that he hoped Sferra "receives whatever treatment he needs to control what in my opinion is a significant anger problem."

In a letter to Duvin, he dismissed the management attorney's description of events as "fictitious and self-serving."

He also said it was a mystery why Duvin should think he harbored ill will. "I can't even remember the last time you won a case against me," he wrote.

A bargaining session set for today is to be joined by a federal mediator.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...450.xml&coll=2

aV

My first reaction here is why didn't the "chokee" grab the choker's nutsack and start squeezing and digging his fingernails in?

My second reaction is to wonder if the federal mediator doubles as a wrestling referee?

My third reaction is to think there's probably some merit to having labor disputes resolved by cage match.

Penske_Account · 08-04-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redheaded stepkid
Thanks Balt and Violins, I appreciate the advice.

That is exactly why I would rather ask the questions here. As I wrote to Hank (I think it was Hank) bad reviews here won't impact my ability to pay the rent or buy beer......

You were a good sock. I miss you most [sniff]

We will always have Toledo my redhaired friend.