Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Aren't Arabs also Caucasians?

They look brown to me.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Can a pro choise candiate get the nomination?

No. That is why it will be McCain v. Hill. If Jeb Bush tries to run, you will see me pull a Taxwonk.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Me
Hi, why don't you tell us again why it is OK for muslims to do what they did in Russia . . . .

You keep saying "Eff you!", but all I'm hearing is "Fu." See you next time.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
You are such a stupid idiot.

May I use this as my sig line?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I could similarly ask why Lyndon LaRouche wasn't allowed to speak in Boston.

You could, but Lyndon's not a Democrat, so you'd sound ignorant and uninformed. Which you generally aren't. Why would you want to start?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Jeez. I sure wouldn't want to upset any Muslims by asking them to even ADDRESS mass killings done in the name of their religion, or by fellow Muslims. How is asking this akin to demanding money/reparations? Or even an "apology"? Not even close.

Okay. You have a picture of a dead boy, killed by a group of terrorists. And you are using that picture to appeal to others' emotions instead of their intellect in reacting to your effort to paint an entire religion's adherents with the same broad brush.

You suggest that ALL Muslims should apologize for the acts of a FEW. (Remember, this is a religion that has more practitioners than any other religion on the planet.) As if a Muslim doctor in Aurora, Illinois or a Muslim peasant in Java had anything at all to do with the killings in Chechnya or 9/11.

You, and those who think like you, do not deserve to call yourselves American. You do not deserve to feel the outrage you claim to over the thousands of all nationalities and fiaths killed on 9/11. You do not deserve to claim a social, political, intellectual, or human bond with those of us who live in this country and remember what it is that we stand for.

In short, you are the lowest form of bigoted, simple-minded demagogue. You disgust and repulse me.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
Great argument technique. Change the subject. Thought that went out with adolescence?

He didn't change the subject. he stayed right on point. You were taking a passage from an ancient text out of context, applying it literally when it should be understood in a historical and allegorical framework, in order to condemn a large portion of the world's population.

Atticus did exactly the same thing.

Is the thing you oblect to the fact that it uses exactly the same argument that you did to show you how ill-considered your position is?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Voiced when and by whom? And I stress again that the point is not for the Muslim lady next door to take "responsibility" or blame for the events of 9/11 (or issue an apology or pay reparations).

Ah, but that is what you said. And you linked it with a picture of a child that appeared to me to be dead. I submit that you wanted that impression to be created because it served your purpose.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Can a pro choise candiate get the nomination?

One can if em's from Boice, Idaho.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
He didn't change the subject. he stayed right on point. You were taking a passage from an ancient text out of context, applying it literally when it should be understood in a historical and allegorical framework, in order to condemn a large portion of the world's population.

Atticus did exactly the same thing.

Except 150 kids didn't die because of some zealots who take biblical passages from 2000 years ago and try and fit them into today. they killed 150 middle school kids. the murderers are 2/3 from a muslim part of Russia that wants to break away. Are you saying this is regional pride and not based upon religion? a third of the murderers were from other islamic countries. Why were they there? do you think they came because they felt strong tie to the regional fight? see, I think the better explaination is that Islamic extremists want to force Russia to give up Checnea forthe greatergood of Allah.

The Islamic extremeists focus on that part of the ancient text which support killing. Pat buchanan probably would like to kill fornicators, but so far he's retrained himself.

all Diane and i said was that it would be nice to see Muslim leaders come out and denounce this action. See wonk, it isn't improbable that this type thing could expand and more freedom fighters do this crap elsewhere. Really, what's to keep two jihadis with submachine guns under their winter coats from capturing a movie theatre here this December showing a new disney release? 150 dead kids in a Chicago suburb- feel different?

And once that shit starts, do you really think the bulk of the American public will look at the world your way?

Not all Muslims are bad, in fact the muslims who do not murder in the name of the religion are the best hope to avoid a race war. sticking your head in the sand about what motivates some muslims to kill is not the real smart move however, and is in fact a step towards a race war.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Except 150 kids didn't die because of some zealots who take biblical passages from 2000 years ago and try and fit them into today. they killed 150 middle school kids. the murderers are 2/3 from a muslim part of Russia that wants to break away. Are you saying this is regional pride and not based upon religion? a third of the murderers were from other islamic countries. Why were they there? do you think they came because they felt strong tie to the regional fight? see, I think the better explaination is that Islamic extremists want to force Russia to give up Checnea forthe greatergood of Allah.

The Islamic extremeists focus on that part of the ancient text which support killing. Pat buchanan probably would like to kill fornicators, but so far he's retrained himself.

all Diane and i said was that it would be nice to see Muslim leaders come out and denounce this action. See wonk, it isn't improbable that this type thing could expand and more freedom fighters do this crap elsewhere. Really, what's to keep two jihadis with submachine guns under their winter coats from capturing a movie theatre here this December showing a new disney release? 150 dead kids in a Chicago suburb- feel different?

And once that shit starts, do you really think the bulk of the American public will look at the world your way?

Not all Muslims are bad, in fact the muslims who do not murder in the name of the religion are the best hope to avoid a race war. sticking your head in the sand about what motivates some muslims to kill is not the real smart move however, and is in fact a step towards a race war.

You didn't even come close, here, Hank. Pony posted somethng aling the lines of how the US should have nuked Baghdad, then Teheran, then Damascus on successive days after 9/11 because the Koran says that it's okay to beat your wife, as if that was proof that Muslims in general are less worthy as human beings than we are.

Atticus then quoted a passage from the Bible that says that is your son refuses to behaves and drinks and mouths off, that he should be taken to the gates of the city and there be stoned.

Pony then accused Atticus of changing the subject. I responded as you quoted above. I noted that Atticus had statyed right on subject, quoting a passage from an ancient religious text to support the notion that its believers were somehow less worthy as human beings.

Diane said that all Muslims should apologize for the acts of some Islamic terrorists, as though all Muslims bore responsibility for the actions of the Chechen terrorists. She supported her post with a picture of a child that appeared to be dead. I presume the child's picture was there to prove that all Muslims are baby-killers. Given the text of her post, it could have served no other purpose.

I called her a simple-minded bigot, and suggested that she and other so-called patriots who, in the wake of 9/11 and now, apparently, the slaughter in Russia, who are arguing that these atrocities are the responsibility of all members of the Muslim faith are a bigger threat to our freedom than any given Muslim who does not actively engage in terrorism.

I also noted that she disgusted and repulsed me.

Now, having laid out the dialogue as it emerged from the relevant posts, let's examine your post.

• Except 150 kids didn't die because of some zealots who take biblical passages from 2000 years ago and try and fit them into today. they killed 150 middle school kids. the murderers are 2/3 from a muslim part of Russia that wants to break away.

You're completely correst here. These kids didn't die because of some zealot trying to enforce an old text. That is exactly the same point I asserted and the polar opposite of what Diane and Pony said. Where are we in disagreement, Hank?

• All Diane and i said was that it would be nice to see Muslim leaders come out and denounce this action. See wonk, it isn't improbable that this type thing could expand and more freedom fighters do this crap elsewhere. Really, what's to keep two jihadis with submachine guns under their winter coats from capturing a movie theatre here this December showing a new disney release? 150 dead kids in a Chicago suburb- feel different?

Here, you are wrong. That isn't what Diane said at all. She said that all Muslims bear responsibility for this because they haven't come out and condemned it as Muslims. As it happems, that's bullshit. Many Muslim groups have condemned the terrorist action of Islamic extremists. But, and this is more important...
THEY DON"T HAVE TO!!!

Muslims are no more responsible as Muslims for the actions of others than you and I are. To suggest that because they share a faith with the Terrorists, they share the blame is scapegoating and it is the lowest form of discourse and the basest level of ignorance.

150 dead kids in Chicago wouldn't feel diffferent to me. It wouls still be 150 dead kids. And it would still not be the fault of any Muslim other than the ones with the machine guns.

• Not all Muslims are bad, in fact the muslims who do not murder in the name of the religion are the best hope to avoid a race war.

You're right about the first phrase in this sentence. Not all Muslims are bad. The remainder of the sentence is just plain wrong, though. The best hope for aviding a race war is for all thinking, freedom-loving people of the world to refuse to accept, condone, or even ignore statements like those uttered by Diane and Pony.

Because they are the ones who are laying the groundwork for a race war. And that's wrong. It is unacceptable to me and it should be similarly unacceptable to you. To say otherwise is to deal in prejudice and hate. To say otherwise is to aid the terrorists, because that is their aim. To foster hate, suspicion, and violence against people just because of who they are.

It is too facile to say that because all terrorists are Muslims, all Muslims support terrorists. That's no different than saying that because so much street crime is perpetrated by Black and Latino street gangs that Blacks and Latinos support and foster a culture of violence and crime.

I expected better of Pony and I expect better of you. Diane, I have very little in the way of expectations for.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
You didn't even come close, here, Hank. Pony posted somethng aling the lines of how the US should have nuked Baghdad, then Teheran, then Damascus on successive days after 9/11 because the Koran says that it's okay to beat your wife, as if that was proof that Muslims in general are less worthy as human beings than we are.

9/11 I listened to Howard Stern. It was his best show ever. That day he said we should nuke, "you know where." But even that day I knew that "where" is the big question and the heart of the debate between "just 2 dozen bad guys", or "a serious problem posed by a religion". Pony's 3 targets are arguably not well-choosen even accepting that nuking was in order. One could argue Kabul, Islamabahd and riyahd would be more effective places to nuke.I don't think nuking is right, but the fact that we don't know where to nuke surely should answer the question; should we nuke?

Many Muslim groups have condemned the terrorist action of Islamic extremists. But, and this is more important...
THEY DON"T HAVE TO!!!

Muslims are no more responsible as Muslims for the actions of others than you and I are. To suggest that because they share a faith with the Terrorists, they share the blame is scapegoating and it is the lowest form of discourse and the basest level of ignorance.

I don't think muslim groups have unconditionally condemned much. i know its shitty to say "cite please" but I believe you'd be hard pressed to support this. And consider that Osama is one of the most popular names for boys, toys are being made of Osama knocking down the towers, 80% of SA people HATED us before Iraq, etc. I think you have your head in the sand- sorry. I live in the city with the biggest Islamic population in the US. I interact and don't fear and everything- But I do fear what is going on in other countries in the name of Islam.

You're right about the first phrase in this sentence. Not all Muslims are bad. The remainder of the sentence is just plain wrong, though. The best hope for aviding a race war is for all thinking, freedom-loving people of the world to refuse to accept, condone, or even ignore statements like those uttered by Diane and Pony.

Meaningless statements based upon anger or alcohol on an internet forum don't lead to war. But dead kids could. if the Islamic peoples of the world would just refuse to accept and condone 150 dead kids, that would be more important than what Pony might say.

[SlaveNoMore]

taxwonk
You could, but Lyndon's not a Democrat, so you'd sound ignorant and uninformed. Which you generally aren't. Why would you want to start?

http://larouchein2004.net/

Is your apology gonna be on the Board, in an IM, or a PM?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski

I don't think muslim groups have unconditionally condemned much. i know its shitty to say "cite please" but I believe you'd be hard pressed to support this. And consider that Osama is one of the most popular names for boys, toys are being made of Osama knocking down the towers, 80% of SA people HATED us before Iraq, etc. I think you have your head in the sand- sorry. I live in the city with the biggest Islamic population in the US. I interact and don't fear and everything- But I do fear what is going on in other countries in the name of Islam.

How about my gastroenterologist? Or the cab driver who took me to the train station? Or Zogby?

But again, why should they apologize? Why do they have to publicly condemn the acts of terrorists?

Where is the full page ad you took out in the International Herald Tribune apologizing to the Iraqi people for Abu Ghraib? And before you tell me that Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few bad apples and you can't condemn the entire US military presence in Iraq, consider how that is any different an argument than any Muslim in Detroit or, for that matter, Riyadh might make.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
How about my gastroenterologist? Or the cab driver who took me to the train station? Or Zogby?

But again, why should they apologize? Why do they have to publicly condemn the acts of terrorists?

Where is the full page ad you took out in the International Herald Tribune apologizing to the Iraqi people for Abu Ghraib? And before you tell me that Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few bad apples and you can't condemn the entire US military presence in Iraq, consider how that is any different an argument than any Muslim in Detroit or, for that matter, Riyadh might make.

What we've done about abu prison as a nation is to publicly assure it cannot happen again. the gov't is putting people in prison for goodness sakes.

Meanwhile the world's 3rd strongest military is getting ready to go medievil on its islamic population. abu prison doesn't lead to a race war. Russia seems to be headed for one. I don't want us to be.

Quick question: abandon Israel or nuke Tehran- pick one.