Fashion Board 3-5-04 to 4-6-04

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I'd like to know which girl group you'd want to include.

Duran Duran?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Jack Manfred
A list without Nirvana is a list written by a baby boomer.

Agree.

And if we're going to include The Velvet Underground solely for their influence, we have to include either The Pixies, Sonic Youth, or Husker Du.

Disagree.

First, I think it is unfair to say that the VU is being included solely for their influence. They made great music that stands on its own. In my youth, I rejected them as lacking in talent, but I have become a bigger and bigger fan every year since I was 20. I can think of few other bands about which I can say that. Of course, this may have to do with the fact that I have been doing an increasing amount of smack each year since I was 20 . . .

Second, I think they are far more influential than any of the great but lesser bands you mention. This may simply be because the influence of your bands has not yet had time to ripen, coming decades later than the VU. But, I hear bands being described as "influenced by the VU" or words to that effect far more often than I hear bands being described as "Husker Du-esque." And I live in Minneapolis.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
(kind of like the Stones, who were one of a number of damn good bands back in the day, but make it on to almost all the top 10 lists based solely on the fact that they kept making music 20 years after their peers stopped, some of it pretty good).

No. The Stones are one of the greatest rock bands ever if you just take their first 15-20 years of music (which it is probably best to do in any event).

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
I wouldn't include any girl groups (different genre), but an argument could be made for The Pretenders. Or, in a similar vien (but minus the chicka), The Kinks. I don't think either got honorable mention, but I'm too lazy to check.

Arguments could be made for both groups. Right-minded people would reject those arguments. I like both groups a lot, and was a huge Kinks fan as a kid (my first big rock concert). Not top 10 rock band material, though.

Who knew this topic would inspire me to state strongly-held opinions as if they were objective facts?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
No. The Stones are one of the greatest rock bands ever if you just take their first 15-20 years of music (which it is probably best to do in any event).

Exactly my point. We only had about a half dozen years of music from the Doors and the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and if you compare year for year, they're as good as or better than the Stones.

But, the Stones kept it going for a long time, 15-20 years of great music, another 20 of often pretty good music. That's what gets them on the list ahead of, for example, the Doors.

You can also compare the first five years of Grace Slick and The Great Society/Jefferson Airplane to the early years of the Stones; then, of course, the Stones get even better and Airplane does what Airplane did. (Raising the question of the greatest crash and burn in Rock history?)

[dtb]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
I should try one of those [sniper sites] - it seems like it would decrease my stress rather a lot. Which do you use? How does it work?

It's very simple, you put in your maximum price, and the sniper site puts it in at the last second (just like e-bay, it bids the lowest price that will beat the current price, up to your maximum). If your auction is several days away, it will notify you if your bid has been exceeded (by someone on e-bay, not by another sniper). They charge a modest commission (minimum $0.10 or $0.25, but generally 1% of purchase price I think -- I bid on such small-ticket items, that I ususally just pay $0.25), and give you the first 5 or 10 snipes (i.e., successful bids) for free.

If you sign up for the one I use (auctionsniper.com), please say that I referred you when you enroll and I'll get 5 free snipes or something (maybe only 3 - whatever). I'll give you my e-bay id so you can refer to me.

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Oh, I can go better than that - I picked up a (really quite nice) antique - price, $9.99. S/H, $185, actual shipping cost: $35. Karma gets those guys sometimes, though - the only negative or neutral feedback my seller had ever gotten was from buyers who didn't realize the game and complained about "good prices but S&H was unreasonable."

I have no problem if they're up front about it. The biggest-ticket item I ever bought was a portable DVD player (for about $250), and the site made it very clear that there was a handling fee (they told you what it was) and that their only negative feedback had to do with people who complained about it, even though they explicitly stated that was their policy. I bid knowing they'd charge $10 above actual shipping cost, but as they weren't trying to "pull a fast one" I had no complaints.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by dtb
I'll give you my e-bay id so you can refer to me.

Kewl.

I have no problem if they're up front about it.

Neither do I, from a buyer p.o.v. (I calculate max bids including S&H, so I never bid on something w/o stated S&H costs unless I get a S&H price from the buyer first), but I hadn't thought about the commission issue, and that is a bit stinky.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Exactly my point. We only had about a half dozen years of music from the Doors and the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and if you compare year for year, they're as good as or better than the Stones.

But, the Stones kept it going for a long time, 15-20 years of great music, another 20 of often pretty good music. That's what gets them on the list ahead of, for example, the Doors.

You can also compare the first five years of Grace Slick and The Great Society/Jefferson Airplane to the early years of the Stones; then, of course, the Stones get even better and Airplane does what Airplane did. (Raising the question of the greatest crash and burn in Rock history?)

Well, I used the 15-20 year time fram because you mentioned that they were only included because they were doing stuff 20 years after their contemporaries had quit. But, take a look at Hot Rocks, the 1964-71 greatest hits record:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...20974?v=glance
(graphic penis splitting photos)

By 1971, they were already a greater band than the Doors would ever be. I watched the Doors movie on Sunday night on Bravo - great music and, relevantly, a flamboyant and iconic rock group worthy of adulation, even scaling back Oliver Stone's hyperbolic rendition. But, not in the same category as the Stones. With the Jimi Hendrix Experience, you have a better argument, but they would have had to kick out some pretty great albums (had Jimi lived) to be in the same league.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Well, I used the 15-20 year time fram because you mentioned that they were only included because they were doing stuff 20 years after their contemporaries had quit. But, take a look at Hot Rocks, the 1964-71 greatest hits record:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...20974?v=glance
(graphic penis splitting photos)

By 1971, they were already a greater band than the Doors would ever be. I watched the Doors movie on Sunday night on Bravo - great music and, relevantly, a flamboyant and iconic rock group worthy of adulation, even scaling back Oliver Stone's hyperbolic rendition. But, not in the same category as the Stones. With the Jimi Hendrix Experience, you have a better argument, but they would have had to kick out some pretty great albums (had Jimi lived) to be in the same league.

Yeh, well, I pretty much agree with all of this, and already said so, but want to keep fighting, so maybe you should listen to some of that Doors stuff again instead of just watching a movie. Until you've stared at woodgrain for three hours listening to Riders on the Storm over and over, you won't really understand.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Jack Manfred
I agree these movies are underrated

I thought it was a pretty good list - as I realized when my list of "I adamantly agrees" hit about 20% of the total list. My revised very short list:

agree
devils' backbone
time after time (I just loved this movie)
deep rising (a horror movie even the Mr. loves)
Alien 3 (which I only watched in the first place because this girl I know fucked one of the actors playing one of the inmates and said he had a HUGE dick, so I had to see this guy, but it was a pretty fun film. And it has BOTH Charles Dance and Lance Henriksen, both famous mainly for being on my laminated list.)
The Ref
Testament
Breakdown (excellent little film)

They're on crack
the arrival
brotherhood of the wolf (fun flick, but ...)
Dragonslayer (though I agree that it has aged pretty well)
Copland
the Edge
Peacemaker
Temple of Doom (wtf?)
Money Pit
Mosquito coast
knights' tale
Last Boyscout
Gremlins 2
Pump up the volume

Stuff I need to see
Mr. Frost
Equilibrium (didn't this suck? I swear I heard this sucked ass)
space truckers (been on cable a lot recently, so why not)
Miami blues
King of New York
Ed Wood (I'm embarassed to admit)
Tailor of Panama

Stuff that was good (or not) but is not underloved
fright night
Ronin
LA story
Birdy (isn't this flick well loved?)
Casino
& the Band Played on (good film, but got a HUGE boost from the "important/duty/social-issue" side that it didn't deserve on the merits)
Deterrence (decent flick, but not that good)
Candyman (c'mon, this is a cult classic on the scale of Evil Dead and Phantasm)
Gods & Monsters (great film, and received much critical felatio, too)
Prophecy (has cult cred way out of proportion to its quality, though it isn't bad)

actor most likely to be in an underrated movie
Denis Leary

should be on there
list is endless, but Ravenous comes immediately to mind.
And Bubba Ho-Tep, of course.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower

Who knew this topic would inspire me to state strongly-held opinions as if they were objective facts?

And this topic is then different from others how?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Until you've stared at woodgrain for three hours listening to Riders on the Storm over and over, you won't really understand.

"Greatest drugs" is an entirely different poll.

Or, maybe not.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Interesting list. I, too, would drop Floyd for Nirvana. Other changes I'd make are more just personal taste and exposure issues (i.e., live, Los Lobos may be the greatest rock band currently working, but I wouldn't expect to see them on a "top bands" list).

The Stones would be number 2 on that list even if they's blown up before they made Exile, which just happens to be the greatest rock album ever. Sidd, you've clearly inhaled too much stripper glitter lately. Zep over the Stones? Not in any world I wanna be a part of.

On a related note, anybody check out Rolling Stone's "Immortals?" An interesting top 50 list. Post-punk is underrepresented (still no Pixies, 'Mats, Husker Du, Sonic Youth). Probably hip-hop, too (nothing but Public Enemy and Run DMC). You can only read the artis-written intros for the fist 10. The choice of artist writing the intro is telling (e.g., James Taylor writing for Simon and Garfunkle makes it even easier to discount that entry).

What does TiVo have that the dvr from say comcast doesnt?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Yeh, well, I pretty much agree with all of this, and already said so, but want to keep fighting, so maybe you should listen to some of that Doors stuff again instead of just watching a movie. Until you've stared at woodgrain for three hours listening to Riders on the Storm over and over, you won't really understand.

Maybe this is my boring suburban alcohol-only lifestyle talking, but the Doors suck. I'll amend that: Jim Morrison sucks. I've got nothing against a good art-rock electric organ solo, but Morrison's "poetry" is easily outclassed by any 15-year-old girl with tortoiseshell glasses and a notepad. He makes Jewel sound deep. "Ghost Song" is just embarrassing. The reason Coppola used them for the AN soundtrack is that by the end of it, you wanted to see an airstrike.