General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control.

He has a history of attention issues, but for the most part has played cleanly since he started three years ago. Never winds up in the box, never takes retaliatory penalties.

Last week at practice he took a two handed slash at another player for cutting him in line. He was taken off the ice by the coach, as I didn't see it. There was no injury as he hit shoulder pads, but I warned him that if he did it again, I would take him off the team. The kid he slashed is a little goofy but NOT an aggressive or mean-spirited kid. In my opinion there is no room in youth hockey for behavior like this.

Last night there was a little bit of "going at it" with another player who is a very aggressive instigator. This time, my kid's two-handed slash hit the other kid square on the forearm. My reaction was to ask the coach to stop practice (he didn't see it) and I pulled my kid off the ice and we left practice.

My intent is to follow up on my threat and have him continue to skate on his own if he wants but not to have him play on this team any more. It would be a blow to him and the team but I think it's necessary. I haven't talked to the coach yet.

Folks, I truly respect the opinions on this board. Please tell me what you would do.

Thanks.

I know you and I have different philosophies about coaching and team sports; so I preface it with that...but...

My first instinct is not to pull him off the team altogether. That is a little harsh I feel.

Maybe have him not participate in a few games [how many left for the season] and explain to him why this is all happening. you are a pretty practical and rational guy. you will make it clear to him this type of behavior is not acceptable to you or the team.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control.

He has a history of attention issues, but for the most part has played cleanly since he started three years ago. Never winds up in the box, never takes retaliatory penalties.

Last week at practice he took a two handed slash at another player for cutting him in line. He was taken off the ice by the coach, as I didn't see it. There was no injury as he hit shoulder pads, but I warned him that if he did it again, I would take him off the team. The kid he slashed is a little goofy but NOT an aggressive or mean-spirited kid. In my opinion there is no room in youth hockey for behavior like this.

Last night there was a little bit of "going at it" with another player who is a very aggressive instigator. This time, my kid's two-handed slash hit the other kid square on the forearm. My reaction was to ask the coach to stop practice (he didn't see it) and I pulled my kid off the ice and we left practice.

My intent is to follow up on my threat and have him continue to skate on his own if he wants but not to have him play on this team any more. It would be a blow to him and the team but I think it's necessary. I haven't talked to the coach yet.

Folks, I truly respect the opinions on this board. Please tell me what you would do.

Thanks.

I think before you make the decision, you need to try and undersand what's causing the change in behavior. If it's a situational thing and there is a way to change the situation, then that would probably be more effective. If he's just getting more aggessive due to the same impulses that are behind the attention issue, then taking him off the team so he can work on his focus is probably a good idea.

Just make sure you aren't falling into the parent trap of doing something that doesn't make sense just because you said you'd do it.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control.

He has a history of attention issues, but for the most part has played cleanly since he started three years ago. Never winds up in the box, never takes retaliatory penalties.

Last week at practice he took a two handed slash at another player for cutting him in line. He was taken off the ice by the coach, as I didn't see it. There was no injury as he hit shoulder pads, but I warned him that if he did it again, I would take him off the team. The kid he slashed is a little goofy but NOT an aggressive or mean-spirited kid. In my opinion there is no room in youth hockey for behavior like this.

Last night there was a little bit of "going at it" with another player who is a very aggressive instigator. This time, my kid's two-handed slash hit the other kid square on the forearm. My reaction was to ask the coach to stop practice (he didn't see it) and I pulled my kid off the ice and we left practice.

My intent is to follow up on my threat and have him continue to skate on his own if he wants but not to have him play on this team any more. It would be a blow to him and the team but I think it's necessary. I haven't talked to the coach yet.

Folks, I truly respect the opinions on this board. Please tell me what you would do.

Thanks.

If you take him off the team for a week, he's likely to get the point, no? Tell him it's permanent, then, after he's freaked out and depressed and learned how bad it is to be taken off the team, let him back on.

[dtb]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I think before you make the decision, you need to try and undersand what's causing the change in behavior. If it's a situational thing and there is a way to change the situation, then that would probably be more effective. If he's just getting more aggessive due to the same impulses that are behind the attention issue, then taking him off the team so he can work on his focus is probably a good idea.

Just make sure you aren't falling into the parent trap of doing something that doesn't make sense just because you said you'd do it.

I agree with the first paragraph, but I don't know about second. Assuming the consequence outlined ahead of time wasn't absurd (and it doesn't sound like it), the follow-through is really important. Finding out what is causing the change in behavior seems like a good idea, though.

A compromise could be to suspend him and allow him a chance to earn his way back on the team with good behaviour (Canadian spelling in honour of hockey). His suspension time can be spent figuring out what is causing the change in behavior.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control.

My kids are much younger, so take this for what it is worth, but I'm hearkening back to my youth and that of my sibs.

I'd say it sounds like the hormones are starting to kick in, and the 6-8 tough years are beginning. Behavioral changes aren't uncommon as kids move into adolescence. (Boy, that was deep and original!)

Originally posted by pony_trekker
Last night there was a little bit of "going at it" with another player who is a very aggressive instigator. This time, my kid's two-handed slash hit the other kid square on the forearm. My reaction was to ask the coach to stop practice (he didn't see it) and I pulled my kid off the ice and we left practice.

My intent is to follow up on my threat and have him continue to skate on his own if he wants but not to have him play on this team any more. It would be a blow to him and the team but I think it's necessary. I haven't talked to the coach yet.

You're the best judge for your own child as to what is necessary, but I'd say that you did the right thing initially. I probably wouldn't make it a permanent removal, though. A shorter time period will convey the lesson as well as it can be taught, I think, without being a devastating nuclear blow.

Given the circumstances, I think you could pull him for a week or two, and then let him go back with a final warning without losing parental credibility. At that point, of course, the next incident would have to be the last one.

S_A_M

P.S. So you can understand where I'm coming from, its my view that there is nothing necessarily wrong with practice scuffles, but you can't have the sticks involved.

[mommylawyer]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control. ...

Folks, I truly respect the opinions on this board. Please tell me what you would do.

Thanks.

Any idea of what sparked this aggression? Most kids don't just 'flip out' there is usually something going on - an undercurrent of sorts and what folks see is the eruption, not the bubbling lava - eww horrible methaphor - but I hope you get my point. Throw emerging teen hormones into the mix and well...explosive kid with icky shee...awww not going there....

What about a suspension? Dad imposed? See how he responds. I remember when my older brother was a student athlete..he was a 'star' player but in our house academics ruled - Dad didn't care what the eligibilty requirements settled for...so brother gets a "C" in some class - my Dad benched him for 2 weeks! The coach was calling our house daily, my brothers teacher sent home progress reports every other day and it wasn't ubntil my dad was satisfied that my brother had done enough work to bring the "C" back up into the "B" range did he let my brother play... - So I'd try suspending him first and making sure he understands that his behavior has a consequence....

Good luck...and thankfully I have a few more years til teen age angst!

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man


P.S. So you can understand where I'm coming from, its my view that there is nothing necessarily wrong with practice scuffles, but you can't have the sticks involved.

Same here, which is why after a warning and a vicious violation of that warning I think the drastic step is needed.

A shove, a cross-check, a trip, a punch, I wouldn't say a word. The continued swinging of the stick after a stern warning is what's got me very worried.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
My kid who is a solid 12YO player on a mediocre travel hockey team has had a recent rash of anger management issues in practice despite a history of self control.

He has a history of attention issues, but for the most part has played cleanly since he started three years ago. Never winds up in the box, never takes retaliatory penalties.

Last week at practice he took a two handed slash at another player for cutting him in line. He was taken off the ice by the coach, as I didn't see it. There was no injury as he hit shoulder pads, but I warned him that if he did it again, I would take him off the team. The kid he slashed is a little goofy but NOT an aggressive or mean-spirited kid. In my opinion there is no room in youth hockey for behavior like this.

Last night there was a little bit of "going at it" with another player who is a very aggressive instigator. This time, my kid's two-handed slash hit the other kid square on the forearm. My reaction was to ask the coach to stop practice (he didn't see it) and I pulled my kid off the ice and we left practice.

My intent is to follow up on my threat and have him continue to skate on his own if he wants but not to have him play on this team any more. It would be a blow to him and the team but I think it's necessary. I haven't talked to the coach yet.

Folks, I truly respect the opinions on this board. Please tell me what you would do.

Thanks.

You've gotten good advice here.

You have two separate issues at play. One is whatever is leading to the aggression. The second is a threat you made.

I agree with dtb that it's important that you follow through with the consequences you threatened. I think I'd tell my kid something like "You aren't playing again until you and I have figured out why you're behaving the way you are, and until we figure out how to deal with it better." I'd have him continue to skate, and if you're capable I suggest you get out there and skate with him. At some point (and trust yourself.... you'll know when), you can tell him you think he's ready to go back to the team. But one slip and he's done for the season.

And if he does it again, he's done.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man

I'd say it sounds like the hormones are starting to kick in, and the 6-8 tough years are beginning. Behavioral changes aren't uncommon as kids move into adolescence. (Boy, that was deep and original!)

So, give him your login to the porn websites, and a box of kleenex.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
You've gotten good advice here.

You have two separate issues at play. One is whatever is leading to the aggression. The second is a threat you made.

I agree with dtb that it's important that you follow through with the consequences you threatened. I think I'd tell my kid something like "You aren't playing again until you and I have figured out why you're behaving the way you are, and until we figure out how to deal with it better." I'd have him continue to skate, and if you're capable I suggest you get out there and skate with him. At some point (and trust yourself.... you'll know when), you can tell him you think he's ready to go back to the team. But one slip and he's done for the season.

And if he does it again, he's done.

The problem with taking him out because he knew what the consequences were is that, if you give in later, he's just as likely to learn that Dad will back down eventually, so he doesn't need to really pay attention to threats.

He clearly needs some sort of consequences. I'm just observing, on the basis of a combined 28 years of experience, that parents sometimes make threats they come to regret, and more is lost by sticking to your guns to prove you will than could be gained by sitting down and saying "okay, I made a threat that may seem extreme, but we have a real problem here that I can't and won't ignore, so what arewe going to do aboout it?"

[pony_trekker]

Originally posted by taxwonk
. . . so what arewe going to do aboout it?"

I can't resist that either.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by pony_trekker
I can't resist that either.

I was trying to attract Gwinky. I got a real crush on her, eh.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
The problem with taking him out because he knew what the consequences were is that, if you give in later, he's just as likely to learn that Dad will back down eventually, so he doesn't need to really pay attention to threats.

He clearly needs some sort of consequences. I'm just observing, on the basis of a combined 28 years of experience, that parents sometimes make threats they come to regret, and more is lost by sticking to your guns to prove you will than could be gained by sitting down and saying "okay, I made a threat that may seem extreme, but we have a real problem here that I can't and won't ignore, so what arewe going to do aboout it?"

I don't know enough about hockey, and how bad a stick is to comment on the incident.

But I do agree with Wonk that the "must follow through on all threats, even when I see reasons not to" becomes tougher and tougher as the kids get older and the consequences get more dramatic. I dropped specific threats about 12 for that reason.

Now I'm just mumble vaguely about how they'll be sorry.

[Penske_Account]

Query for y'all:

My nephew turns 8 soon and whilst at his parents house over the holidaes I realised that they allow him to use the computer to get on the internet and yet, they have no parental monitoring/security software. So for his birthday, for his own safety and security I am considering getting "him" some of the same.

Any thoughts/recs on the best "net nanny" type of software set up????

regards from the corner office,

Penske

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Query for y'all:

My nephew turns 8 soon and whilst at his parents house over the holidaes I realised that they allow him to use the computer to get on the internet and yet, they have no parental monitoring/security software. So for his birthday, for his own safety and security I am considering getting "him" some of the same.

Any thoughts/recs on the best "net nanny" type of software set up????

Good Lord! You are the fun uncle. Let the boy see some boobies.

Now for my daughters -- ironclad net nanny software when the time comes. They won't even be able to e-mail anyone named Richard.

S_A_M