Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Ty, unless you can answer this now, please don't ever challenge the statement about the world believing Sadaam had WMD.

Why did the UN impose, and continue sanctions that were starving the Iraqui people if the member countries* did not believe he had the WMD's?

Sanctions were imposed and maintained for a variety of reasons, beginning before the first Gulf War and continuing until after the second Gulf War.

The sanctions regime you're referring to began after the first Gulf War, and its removal was contingent upon Iraq satisfying many conditions. Chief among them, but not the only problem, was Iraq's failure to provide proof that it had complied with the various U.N. resolutions requiring WMD disarmament as a condition for ending the 1st Gulf War. Iraq also had failed to pay the requisite reparations to Kuwait, failed to account for and return a number of Kuwaiti captives after the war, etc.

What were you asking, again?

S_A_M

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone_Slothrop
Read the book review (eta: stp). Blix believed Iraq had WMD until fairly soon before the war. Unlike some people, he had an open mind.

And Scott Ritter testified before Congress under oath in 1998 that he had WMD, too.

Funny, how they each changed their tunes.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Our first reaction on 9/11 was to shut down our places of work and all head home. We hid. For days, even weeks and months afterwards we were frightened, and lived in heightened security listening to fighter planes circling in the night.

Huh? Where did that happen except maybe in NYC where you couldn't breathe outdoors because of all the asbestos/soot in the air?

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
The Spanish went out in the street, and basically said, look, bomb away you assholes, we remain opposed to violence.

That is the part that gets me - the "bomb away" part. America said "No more bombs" loud and clear with our actions.

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
They then went to the polls and told their government they also remained opposed to stupidity, their view of the Spanish government's foreign policy, and lying, something just coming to light during the day of the vote.

The message they sent to AQ was "we are leaving Iraq with our tail between our legs."

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Me
Huh? Where did that happen except maybe in NYC where you couldn't breathe outdoors because of all the asbestos/soot in the air?

It certainly did here in Boston. The city was empty by noon.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm not saying that there weren't legitimate arguments to be against the war, but to say that the vote, or the UN itself, is anything other than a complete fucking farce is just wrong and naieve.

You do realize that this paragraph is completely internally inconsistent?

Sometimes I think that if you ever really knew what you were saying that your head would explode.

S_A_M

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Blix never found WMD in the places suggested by U.S. intelligence. After a little of that, you can see how he started to question the intelligence. Apparently we never did.

Yet even in early 2003, shortly before the war started, he had not issued a report to the UN concluding that there were likely no WMD. Rather, he simply asked for more time.

Linky

If you accord no weight whatsoever to Hussein's continued avoidance of inspections, then, yeah, the intelligence at the time might not support an invasion or any action whatsoever. But, that's not how things were: Hussein for 12 years had stymied things. That's not how a leader with nothing to hide acts.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Sanctions were imposed and maintained for a variety of reasons, beginning before the first Gulf War and continuing until after the second Gulf War.

The sanctions regime you're referring to began after the first Gulf War, and its removal was contingent upon Iraq satisfying many conditions. Chief among them, but not the only problem, was Iraq's failure to provide proof that it had complied with the various U.N. resolutions requiring WMD disarmament as a condition for ending the 1st Gulf War. Iraq also had failed to pay the requisite reparations to Kuwait, failed to account for and return a number of Kuwaiti captives after the war, etc.

What were you asking, again?

S_A_M

because it failed to pay $$ the UN wouldn't let it make $$$? did it hear about England's problem with debtor's prisons?
thank you for the confirmation, although I still give TY till 5 to contradict what is now our position.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
It certainly did here in Boston. The city was empty by noon.

Reporting in from DC: Pretty empty by 11:00am. Except for a few rat-bastard partners who insisted on toughing it out.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Reporting in from DC: Pretty empty by 11:00am. Except for a few rat-bastard partners who insisted on toughing it out.

do you mean the first few days after? Spain declared three days of national mourning and closed down.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
do you mean the first few days after? Spain declared three days of national mourning and closed down.

But they didn't go home is the point. They went into the street.

At least at my firm, hours that September went down about 25%, but nobody was going anywhere they thought was dangerous.

The only point being made here, at least by me, is that the reaction of the Spanish having mass demonstrations is both logical and courageous.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Funny, how they each changed their tunes.

“When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?”

- John Maynard Keynes

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Reporting in from DC: Pretty empty by 11:00am. Except for a few rat-bastard partners who insisted on toughing it out.

Given that the pentagon was hit with an airplane, I would have cleared out of DC on 9/11, too. Who knew what in DC was going to be hit next? That was reasonable behavior when people weren't even sure if more attacks were yet to come.

People in the Bay area worked that day and even took their chances driving over the Golden Gate bridge.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Me
People in the Bay area worked that day and even took their chances driving over the Golden Gate bridge.

Their options being . . . ?

I stayed home to be with my wife and kid.

[SlaveNoMore]

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
But they didn't go home is the point. They went into the street.

At least at my firm, hours that September went down about 25%, but nobody was going anywhere they thought was dangerous.

The only point being made here, at least by me, is that the reaction of the Spanish having mass demonstrations is both logical and courageous.

What kind of revisionist bunk is this? If not glued to the television, every single NYer I know was in a local bar getting plastered for several days.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
But they didn't go home is the point. They went into the street.

Did they get on trains? Now that would have shown they had balls.