Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Has the President authorized the release of all of his service records?

yes, although most were inadvertantly destroyed in 96.

And Bilmore's Swiftie doctor conceded that he "delegated" the signing of the treatment form. Just because Kerry didn't release everything doesn't mean that the stuff he released was fluff.

There is no way you would accept this in discovery and you know it and so does everyone else. Credibility Bob! you and Larry are the only libs with it here- please don't squander it....

[SlaveNoMore]

[iNot Bob [/i]
Has the President authorized the release of all of his service records?

He did. Recall all the "lost file" hoopla. And the need for CBS to make stuff up

And Bilmore's Swiftie doctor conceded that he "delegated" the signing of the treatment form. Just because Kerry didn't release everything doesn't mean that the stuff he released was fluff.

"What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm," Letson recorded in a written account detailing his encounter with Kerry. "The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter."

Letson said he used forceps to remove the piece of metal,
which had penetrated no more than 3 or 4 mm into the skin. "It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound," Letson wrote. "The wound was covered with a bandaid."

...

When Letson first went public with his account, the Kerry campaign suggested that he had not been present at Cam Ranh Bay and was not even a medical doctor. In a letter threatening television-station managers who ran the first Swift boat
ad, Kerry's lawyers wrote, "The 'doctor' who appears in the ad, Louis Letson, was not a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and was not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry's sick-call sheet. In fact, another physician actually signed Senator Kerry's sick-call sheet."

But it turned out Kerry's lawyers were wrong. The sheet was
signed not by another doctor but by Letson's assistant, J. C. Carreon, who is no longer alive. And the sick-call sheet's description of Kerry's wound, while very brief, is entirely consistent with Letson's recollections. It reads, in full: "Shrapnel in left arm above elbow. Shrapnel removed and appli
bacitracin dressing. Ret to Duty."

....

a Purple Heart can be received only for an injury severe enough to require treatment "by a medical officer", i.e., by a doctor. If the assistant, Carreon, was the only person to treat the injury, it doesn't count for a Purple Heart. If the doctor, Letson, treated it, then it doesn't count either, because Dr. Letson says he really didn't have to see it. Kerry's medal is bogus either way.

[Spanky]

You left out Giuliani and Pataki. And what makes you think Jeb is not going to run? Of course he is going to run. His denials right now are just to make him look as though he is not totally obsessed with the job. Ashcroft is running for sure.

Originally posted by sgtclub
She wins the nomination easily. Whether she wins the who shabang depends on who she runs against. The GOP bench is short right now. Jeb is not going to run, Frist would get creamed, and McCain can't get the nomination. Rice would be interesting, but I'm not convinced she'll run. The wild card is Newt. He's been entertaining a run recently. Talk about a fun race to watch!

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by bilmore
Doc says, I treated him, corpsman signed off. No one - no one - disputes that. You're only point is, well, you don't think there's enough proof to satisfy you. Find me a dispute, even from Kerry, and we'll talk.

And, the story of the no-firing? Again, any dispute? From anyone? If I remember correctly, a number of people came back with that same story. Was this the injury that even his commander told him to forget, because it was trivial, but he went around him and got a PH anyway, or was that another, different, trivial injury that "merited" a PH?

Read the article, Bilmore. If you do, you would see that it said:

re: the firefight or lack of a firefight:

• In his affidavit, Letson says Kerry's wound was self-inflicted and does not merit a purple heart. But that's based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that. Letson says “the crewman with Kerry told me there was no hostile fire, and that Kerry had inadvertently wounded himself with an M-79 grenade.” But the Kerry campaign says the two crewmen with Kerry that day deny ever talking to Letson.
  
  On Aug. 17 the Los Angeles Times quoted Letson as giving a slightly different account than the one in his affidavit. The Times quotes him as saying he heard only third-hand that there had been no enemy fire. According to the Times, Letson said that what he heard about Kerry's wounding came not from other crewmen directly, but through some of his own subordinates. Letson was quoted as saying the information came from crewmen who were "just talking to my guys … There was not a firefight -- that's what the guys related. They didn't remember any firing from shore."

You're right -- it's undisputed. Kerry says there was one, and the doctor says that he heard that his staff heard that there wasn't a fight. Direct testimony versus third-hand hearsay. And I'll have to check, but I think that Kerry's direct testimony was supported by Sandusky.

Re his disobeying his commanding officer to put in for the Purple Heart:

• Also appearing in the ad is Grant Hibbard, Kerry’s commanding officer at the time. Hibbard’s affidavit says that he “turned down the Purple Heart request,” and recalled Kerry's injury as a "tiny scratch less than from a rose thorn."
  
  That doesn't quite square with Letson's affidavit, which describes shrapnel "lodged in Kerry's arm" (though "barely.")
  
  Hibbard also told the Boston Globe in an interview in April 2004 that he eventually acquiesced about granting Kerry the purple heart.
  
  Hibbard: I do remember some questions on it. . .I finally said, OK if that's what happened. . . do whatever you want.

Mutiny! Why didn't the Navy shoot that Kerry bastard when he put in for that!

[Spanky]

Hillary already has the nomination locked up.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Read the article, Bilmore. If you do, you would see that it said:

re: the firefight or lack of a firefight:

• In his affidavit, Letson says Kerry's wound was self-inflicted and does not merit a purple heart. But that's based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that. Letson says “the crewman with Kerry told me there was no hostile fire, and that Kerry had inadvertently wounded himself with an M-79 grenade.” But the Kerry campaign says the two crewmen with Kerry that day deny ever talking to Letson.
  
  On Aug. 17 the Los Angeles Times quoted Letson as giving a slightly different account than the one in his affidavit. The Times quotes him as saying he heard only third-hand that there had been no enemy fire. According to the Times, Letson said that what he heard about Kerry's wounding came not from other crewmen directly, but through some of his own subordinates. Letson was quoted as saying the information came from crewmen who were "just talking to my guys … There was not a firefight -- that's what the guys related. They didn't remember any firing from shore."

You're right -- it's undisputed. Kerry says there was one, and the doctor says that he heard that his staff heard that there wasn't a fight. Direct testimony versus third-hand hearsay. And I'll have to check, but I think that Kerry's direct testimony was supported by Sandusky.

Okay, I see our difference here.

To you, Kerry's testimony on this matter is dispositive.

Sometimes I guess you just write your motions and let the judge decide.

Re his disobeying his commanding officer to put in for the Purple Heart:

• Also appearing in the ad is Grant Hibbard, Kerry’s commanding officer at the time. Hibbard’s affidavit says that he “turned down the Purple Heart request,” and recalled Kerry's injury as a "tiny scratch less than from a rose thorn."
  
  That doesn't quite square with Letson's affidavit, which describes shrapnel "lodged in Kerry's arm" (though "barely.")
  
  Hibbard also told the Boston Globe in an interview in April 2004 that he eventually acquiesced about granting Kerry the purple heart.
  
  Hibbard: I do remember some questions on it. . .I finally said, OK if that's what happened. . . do whatever you want.

Mutiny! Why didn't the Navy shoot that Kerry bastard when he put in for that!

You're correct here. I was confusing his multiple trivial injuries. No commander saw this one.

(ETA - I do need to add - look at the picture you're painting here of your hero. Impressive.)

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
yes, although most were inadvertantly destroyed in 96.

I recall the inadvertant destruction, but honestly wasn't sure that he had signed the release.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
There is no way you would accept this in discovery and you know it and so does everyone else. Credibility Bob! you and Larry are the only libs with it here- please don't squander it....

Hey, this ain't a lawsuit, and Kerry ain't my client. That being said, the fact that he only releases the records that help him doesn't mean that those records are false. I'm sure that if there was anything really juicy in the unreleased ones, the GOP would have leaked it. (See e.g. James Baker ordered-State Department review of Bill Clinton's passport file in 1992.) (To be fair, see also all the stuff that LBJ did to Goldwater in 1964. Or the FBI files in the Clinton era, although there was no election that year.)

[the ghost of Vince Foster]

Originally posted by bilmore
I'll lay five bucks now that she's our next prez.

Look Bennie, you know I have no beef with you, but I sure hope that sometime in the near future you can find something a little less acidic to worship. Maybe if you were able to back away from the day to day to and fro here and take a good hard look at yourself (and this goes for the rest of all y’all Hillaryophiles) with a logical mind and a heart open to the love of the lord and his son Jesus (and the ghost too) you would easily see how sick you really are to be so in love with this person of less than zero morals. At the first opportunity she would gut you all like a floppy fish and toss you overboard.

There is one person in this world important to this scrotum-wearing-female and that person is the same person who is of paramount importance to the communist puppet masters in Beijing, and that my friend is her royal highnAss herself, Queen cHillary

As an aside, let me tell y’all a story, that is set on a bright sunny afternoon and there is a man who is obviously very much in love by the aura he cast upon his surroundings. He is sitting in the park in his car listening to his favorite radio personality thinking of the love he was about to meet on this beautiful day. The man had been directed to wait as she might be running a little late, so the fact that she was not there yet did not bother him at all. He sat there half way smiling, thinking of the long wet tongue kiss he had received earlier that same day as they parted in her office.

With the suddenness of a bat out of a belfry he is swooped down upon and completely subdued by two large goonish men in dark suits and ray ban wayfarers. He is pulled out of the car and behind it, out of sight of anyone that might be able to see from afar, like perhaps a guard at the nearby Saudi embassy. Then with a quick little silencer enhanced "pop" he was no more.

After cautiously glancing around the two goons carried his limp lifeless body, not unlike two well dressed frat boys helping a drunken pledge. The lifeless body is set down out of immediate sight of casual passerbys and the two thugs saunter off to a waiting dark sedan with government plates and are gone.

That whole sad scenario played out in less than 120 seconds and was perfectly timed so that its history bore no witness. Shortly thereafter the poor slob’s dead body was discovered, but only after Mr. Vince Foster’s office had already been thoroughly ransacked and with all traces of deadly liaison with Madame Hillary having been removed, burned and the ashes cast to sea.

This was not a perfect crime in and of its self, but what made it perfect was that the people, including the chief executive officer of this little world, that should have protected Vince’s life conspired to hide and destroy the facts for fear of their own lives and well being.

Sad.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by bilmore
You make too big of a leap.

The people giving money to Arnold in the belief that it will move their favored legislation forward are, indeed, special interests. But, Arnold chooses how to react to that money.

After the way Davis was demonized (and, in part, recalled) for pay-to-play, despite his repeated assertions that his fundraising and policy shops were totally separate, this is pretty funny.

If Arnold does what he would have done, even after getting bucks from someone else who wants Arnold to continue doing what he's been doing, where's the wedge?

So special interests are just those people who disagree with AS. Thanks, but I've heard that one already.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by bilmore
Didn't he sign the 180? I thought he did. (Might be wrong on this.)

I thought this too.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by the ghost of Vince Foster
Look Bennie, you know I have no beef with you, but I sure hope that sometime in the near future you can find something a little less acidic to worship. Maybe if you were able to back away from the day to day to and fro here and take a good hard look at yourself (and this goes for the rest of all y’all Hillaryophiles) with a logical mind and a heart open to the love of the lord and his son Jesus (and the ghost too) you would easily see how sick you really are to be so in love with this person of less than zero morals. At the first opportunity she would gut you all like a floppy fish and toss you overboard.

There is one person in this world important to this scrotum-wearing-female and that person is the same person who is of paramount importance to the communist puppet masters in Beijing, and that my friend is her royal highnAss herself, Queen cHillary

As an aside, let me tell y’all a story, that is set on a bright sunny afternoon and there is a man who is obviously very much in love by the aura he cast upon his surroundings. He is sitting in the park in his car listening to his favorite radio personality thinking of the love he was about to meet on this beautiful day. The man had been directed to wait as she might be running a little late, so the fact that she was not there yet did not bother him at all. He sat there half way smiling, thinking of the long wet tongue kiss he had received earlier that same day as they parted in her office.

With the suddenness of a bat out of a belfry he is swooped down upon and completely subdued by two large goonish men in dark suits and ray ban wayfarers. He is pulled out of the car and behind it, out of sight of anyone that might be able to see from afar, like perhaps a guard at the nearby Saudi embassy. Then with a quick little silencer enhanced "pop" he was no more.

After cautiously glancing around the two goons carried his limp lifeless body, not unlike two well dressed frat boys helping a drunken pledge. The lifeless body is set down out of immediate sight of casual passerbys and the two thugs saunter off to a waiting dark sedan with government plates and are gone.

That whole sad scenario played out in less than 120 seconds and was perfectly timed so that its history bore no witness. Shortly thereafter the poor slob’s dead body was discovered, but only after Mr. Vince Foster’s office had already been thoroughly ransacked and with all traces of deadly liaison with Madame Hillary having been removed, burned and the ashes cast to sea.

This was not a perfect crime in and of its self, but what made it perfect was that the people, including the chief executive officer of this little world, that should have protected Vince’s life conspired to hide and destroy the facts for fear of their own lives and well being.

Sad.

I think RayBan is one word.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Spanky
You left out Giuliani and Pataki. And what makes you think Jeb is not going to run? Of course he is going to run. His denials right now are just to make him look as though he is not totally obsessed with the job. Ashcroft is running for sure.

Giuliani can't win the nomination. Pataki is a bore. He lost the nomination during his key note speech at the convention.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by bilmore
Okay, I see our difference here.

To you, Kerry's testimony on this matter is dispositive.

Sometimes I guess you just write your motions and let the judge decide.

You're correct here. I was confusing his multiple trivial injuries. No commander saw this one.

(ETA - I do need to add - look at the picture you're painting here of your hero. Impressive.)

Jesus, Bilmore. You are impossible. The doctor you rely upon acknowledges that he has no first-hand knowledge.

You are right. I view the Swifties as a bunch of liars, founded by a liar who was hired as a hatchet man by Chuck Colson thirty years ago. I view all of their assertions through a prism -- a prism mainly related to their despicable assertion that Jim Rassmussen was in no danger when Kerry saved him. They were there, they say, and the saw what happened. Yet they did nothing to pluck this guy (who is now a Republican) out of the water. Why not? They say that no one was shooting at them. So why, bilmore, why?

It is political retribution from a bunch of guys who hate that Kerry went back to the US and helped the anti-war movement. Fair enough. I am certain that many Vietnam vets feel that way -- in fact, I have a family member who served there and was still so upset about it last fall that I couldn't even bring the subject of the election up.

Did Kerry game the system to get out of Vietnam? Maybe. Maybe even probably. Heck, one could even say yes. That doesn't change the facts -- he was wounded three times in accordance with the regs in force. He did save Rassmussen's life. He did serve honorably.

Attack him for what he said when he came back. Attack him for his 20 year record. But don't lie about him, and don't pretend that the Swifties were anything but a (successful) political hit job

[bilmore]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
So special interests are just those people who disagree with AS. Thanks, but I've heard that one already.

Show me where the money affected performance, and I'll worry. What's ANY political contribution in your world? There seems to be more than enough evidence that, for Davis, money was the convincing factor. He was for sale. Arnold is just taking contributions from people who want him to continue with his exhibitied philosophy. Big Difference.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
yes, although most were inadvertantly destroyed in 96.

How fortuitous.

I will say that the one thing that the Rather debacle did do was draw attention away from the fact that GWB did skip a flight physical when he was in the NG and because of that was removed from flight status for a year. I know you don't really support the idea of people being held to account for drug use in their younger days, but to me that still seems like an interesting blank for someone to fill in someday.

But I'm repeating myself, you guys won, Rather has been put out in Shame Pasture, etc.