Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I notice you only post your haiku after a Yankee loss (which explains why you've been so quiet recently).

Schilling goes Game 6
But Boston's best battlecry?
"Just wait til next year!"

TM

My contribution:


Missed the games themselves
Caught the highlights on SC
Scott still needs shooting

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Kerry has acknowledged that current troop strength is insufficient, and has committed to spending some real money on growing the forces through additional enlistment, and to do so NOW.

Bush is on record saying that it's not necessary, and has indicated that he would not spend big amounts on upping pay, etc, all the while watching (I think) Army and (certainly) Guard enlistments miss their recruiting goals.

If it becomes glaringly apparent that more troops are needed quickly, then it's hard to see how we could afford to wait for a few enlistment cycles for people to sign up, get trained, etc. The enlisted army doesn't grow overnight. The argument is not so much that Bush WANTS a draft, it's that he may end up with few real options to the contrary.

Sounds like your man needs to get off the pot and commit to some more troops, or he's gonna continue to hear about this draft stuff.

So don't hate, Hank. Be part of that Bush Redux Solution, and push your man where he needs to go!

I ain't smart like alot of you, so maybe this is dumb, but what I don't get is this....you say Bush will need to draft because we won't get all the soldiers we need through enlistment, but Kerry won't need a draft because he'll get more guys to enlist. How? By raising salaries? Remember, once Kerry comes in the economy will start roaring and they'll be civilian jobs every which ways......

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I believe that there are a significant number of foreign countries who cannot commit to play a bigger role in Iraq because they have been basically told by George Bush to go screw. And, because he has made his rigidity an issue at home, Bush is not in a position to act diplomatically.

As an example, when Turkey was debating overflight issues, Bush's response was not to try to negotiate but to bully, and it backfired. Now, I suspect Turkey will have a much easier time coming around if Kerry is in office.

It's diplomacy. A little give and take and a bit of face saving here and there.

When this administration is over, I'm really looking forward to the books comparing and contrasting the diplomatic approaches of the two Bush administrations (but, a good starting point is "War in a Time of Peace", which shows how Dad did it).

Scowcroft says much the same thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct15.html

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I notice you only post your haiku after a Yankee loss (which explains why you've been so quiet recently).

What can I say? The Muse only speaks to me when the Evil Empire's attempts at world domination are stymied.

(Actually, I've been busy, but you make a valid point. If the Sox do not beat history, I'll post a haiku. A lamentation, in the form of 5-7-5.)

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I believe that there are a significant number of foreign countries who cannot commit to play a bigger role in Iraq because they have been basically told by George Bush to go screw. And, because he has made his rigidity an issue at home, Bush is not in a position to act diplomatically.

Please name the countries? The only ones I can see making a difference are France (won't commit troops), Germany (won't commit troops), Russia (may not be a good idea), and Turkey (see below).

As an example, when Turkey was debating overflight issues, Bush's response was not to try to negotiate but to bully, and it backfired. Now, I suspect Turkey will have a much easier time coming around if Kerry is in office.

Cite please? We offered them a HUGE package of grants and loans. If I remember correctly, the leadership was in favor of it, but it was rejected in parlimant.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Scowcroft says much the same thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct15.html

What are you citing this in support of. He says nothing about other nations being willing to engage in Iraq with different diplomacy.

[SlaveNoMore]

Not Bob
What can I say? The Muse only speaks to me when the Evil Empire's attempts at world domination are stymied.

(Actually, I've been busy, but you make a valid point. If the Sox do not beat history, I'll post a haiku. A lamentation, in the form of 5-7-5.)

Sox finally win
Thus, they remain a nuisance.
Like shit on a shoe

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Please name the countries? The only ones I can see making a difference are France (won't commit troops), Germany (won't commit troops), Russia (may not be a good idea), and Turkey (see below).

If the only thing foreign countries can do for us is give us troops to send to Iraq, we are fucked. I increasingly think we're fucked anyway, though I sure hope I'm wrong. We have to win the fighting to win in Iraq, but it sure won't be enough.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I ain't smart like alot of you, so maybe this is dumb, but what I don't get is this....you say Bush will need to draft because we won't get all the soldiers we need through enlistment, but Kerry won't need a draft because he'll get more guys to enlist. How? By raising salaries? Remember, once Kerry comes in the economy will start roaring and they'll be civilian jobs every which ways......

Not falling for the rope-a-dope routine, Hank. Anyone with your mad Gilligan skillz will not be underestimated.

In any event, I'm not saying Bush "will need to draft."

I'm saying that unless he decides that the the facts suggesting that he's running out of troops are more than just inconvenient, and thereby decides to devote time and energy to growing the forces before the day that they're needed, he may work himself into a corner where he can't either

• snap his fingers and create 2 or 3 divisions overnight, or
• easily persuade other countries to send troops (for reasons that we've already overtalked on this board.)

The remaining choices are draft or draw-down, both of which are political suicide for Bush, the Unwavering Leader.

The problem is that deciding to grow the forces now through increased benefits and pay is tantamount to an admission, however slight, that the Administration might've, possibly, misjudged something about the execution of this war. And, as we've seen in many instances, that just ain't done.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Please name the countries? The only ones I can see making a difference are France (won't commit troops), Germany (won't commit troops), Russia (may not be a good idea), and Turkey (see below).

Start with the Arabic speaking ones, especially those engaged now in Afghanistan and secondarily those who were on board in Iraq I but are far from the scene in Iraq II. See earlier post today. Add some of the ones that are withdrawing right now. Add all NATO powers -- the point of a summit is to provide a forum where a new approach can be agreed and current positions changed. Now think about countries from south of the equator.

Cite please? We offered them a HUGE package of grants and loans. If I remember correctly, the leadership was in favor of it, but it was rejected in parlimant.

We tried a variety of techniques, all laden with a general attitude of "or else". The aid package was not privately proffered and negotiated with the country, but was slapped on the table very publicly, since we were in a hurry. It backfired, since no one wants to appear to their constituents as being bribed, especially when it affects something as critical to Turkey's national defense as their border with Iraq. It wasn't quiet diplomacy, it was a highly public combination of sticks and carrots. We didn't have time to do it right, especially since we had troops sitting a few miles off shore and were all set to invade.

I'll let you do the googling. I followed it closely at the time, since a brother-in-law was on a ship in the Med. (was pulled back, and subsequently deployed from the south).

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Has anyone figured out what the Kerry plan is? A summit plus the Bush plan done better?

On the highest level, yes, that's exactly it. Since Bush's plan, on the highest level, is to stabilize Iraq and get the hell out. It's not like Bush has left Kerry with a lot of options.

Whomever is elected will have to do the best job he can with the situation in Iraq; we've got a track record for Bush. It really boils down to whether someone believes Bush can turn around the mess he's made, or whether the better odds lie with someone else.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Sox finally win
Thus, they remain a nuisance.
Like shit on a shoe

See, here was the perfect chance to use "prostitution or organized crime," and you bypassed it for the vulgar rimshot. Heathen.

On the upside, Tucker Carlson called. He's feeling tired, and wants to take a leave of absence. You up for the gig?

[bilmore]

This one should not be missed by anyone thinking of voting this year!

Go to http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2651184 .

Finally, someone takes a critical look at how Gandalf and Aragorn took us into an unnecessary war with Morder, how the Patriot Act allows for the killing of Orcs with not even the most rudimentary of hearings, and how the Elves lied about mithral. Only Michael Moore could find these secrets.

Why Mordor, you might ask?

Oil. Mordor has oil.

See this ten-minute movie and be educated.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
This one should not be missed by anyone thinking of voting this year!

Go to http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2651184 .

Finally, someone takes a critical look at how Gandalf and Aragorn took us into an unnecessary war with Morder, how the Patriot Act allows for the killing of Orcs with not even the most rudimentary of hearings, and how the Elves lied about mithral. Only Michael Moore could find these secrets.

Why Mordor, you might ask?

Oil. Mordor has oil.

See this ten-minute movie and be educated.

Now you're recycling Slave's material. Oh the humanity!

Telling that you're making a case based on fantasy, while the reality-based community is voting for Kerry.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
This one should not be missed by anyone thinking of voting this year!

Go to http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2651184 .

Finally, someone takes a critical look at how Gandalf and Aragorn took us into an unnecessary war with Morder, how the Patriot Act allows for the killing of Orcs with not even the most rudimentary of hearings, and how the Elves lied about mithral. Only Michael Moore could find these secrets.

Why Mordor, you might ask?

Oil. Mordor has oil.

See this ten-minute movie and be educated.

In LOTR, Frodo had allies.