Fashion Board 11-2-03 - 12-09-03

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Look at that black guy with the mentor." I told you that you don't NEED a mentor.

Things're improving for minorities. The last three people I know who last made partner at big firms, none of them were white males. One was a gay minority, one was a straight minority, and one was a white woman. Each had a mentor that was a white male, and not through some official method. I think highly of each of them too.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
A guy does some work for a while and all hell breaks loose...

I only know a few things...

1. I love my kids, and would gladly stay at home with them if I could. I know how much work it is.
2. I love my wife, who stays at home for now. She can go back to work whenever she wants, or not, as far as I am concerned. Since I work such long hours, I'm glad they get to spend a lot of time with one of of us, at least...
3. I respect my coworkers who pull their weight, do the job and treat me decently. That's the criteria. Race, gender, etc. doesn't matter.
4. I like and respect (almost) all the regulars on this site (except that Penske prick), and it pains me a bit to see some of the invective that's been flying the past few hours...

Can't we just agree to disagree, tone it down a bit, let the socks lie and get back to reality TV and porn?

Seriously, it's getting out of hand.

That was a way nicer way of saying what I want to say. Well, except for the part about personal experience with a life partner and children. Now I am sad that you are married, and seem to like your children to the extent that you would want to maintain a relationship with them even if enticed away from the wife by an evil (but secretly nice and even kittenlike) seductress.

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by Not Me
I really think this topic belongs on the Politics board and the fact that leagle doesn't complain about it only makes more certain it was the content of my post that she objected to.

Could be. Or it could be I wasn't reading the board.

Take your pick.


Edited to say I just finished catching up and damn that was one hell of a conversation.

[leagleaze]

Hi Greg its Wendy:

I was shocked, when I found out that it wasn't you but your twin brother, that's amazing, you're as like as two peas. No one in bed is better than you Greg. I remember, I remember everything very well, that promised you to tell how it was, I'll give you a call today after 9. He took my skirt off, then my panties, then my bra, he sucked my tits, with the same fury you do it.

He was writing alphabet on my pussy for 20 minutes, then suddenly stopped, put me in doggy style position and stuck his dagger.But Greg, why didn't you warn me that his dick is 15 inches long? I was struck, we fucked whole night. I'm so thankful to you, for acquainted me to your brother. I think we can do it on the next Saturday all three together? What do you think?

O yes, as you wanted I've made a few pictures check them out in archive, I hope they will excite you, and you will dream of our new meeting...


15 inches???

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You're an asshole.

But you know what? I DO know more about your world and experiences than you know about mine.

We'll, you're an asshole, too.

Those last two quoted lines summarize what puts me off so much about your attitude. You're suggesting that I have some sort of allegiance or special interest club with other white people, that we all have common interests with other members of our race. And that race is even a valid concept. You fit into the black group, and I fit into the white group, and that defines us. And I should know much about your experience, or you should know much about mine, based on that? That's absurd, all we know about each other is that we're both lawyers in big cities who have enough time to spend some of it screwing around on the internet.

I don't know anything about you. I don't know that you haven't suffered egregious racism. Or, in the cases of others, egregious sexism. Maybe you have. Sadly, it's not unlikely. But we all suffer harms we don't deserve. I don't feel the sting of racism or sexism in traditional terms, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak to their fundamental effect. I'm a white guy, so I can't feel them, right? I'm not allowed to, so I'll have to feel other ills you deem appropriate for a white guy to let perturb or effect him.

Race and gender are concepts which shouldn't factor into how much mentoring or opportunities for professional development a firm provides. Should they factor into hiring, or specific mentor assignment? Sure. Those are subjective measures taking many factors into account and designed to serve different ideals. But, should a firm have a policy of singling people out for certain services based on race and gender? In any other consideration, race and gender are taboo subjects. Mostly. We consider gender, but not race, appropriate to determine insurance rates. But here, we say "this person gets extra services, or benefits, because of race or gender." At the very least, I think that's extremely distasteful.

People change over time because of the ways that institutions influence them. And vice versa. Having hard and fast rules about race and gender and the way to treat people based on these classifications is dangerous. You can't do away with racism through policy. You can't force people to not be bigots through benefits. People will have thoughts or prejudices in their heads and have to have these feelings changed over time. If we continue to create all these racial classes which receive different treatment, we just perpetuate that.

I am sure that you will think it a cliche, but I don't really think of race as a valid concept. A significant portion of my family and friends are mixed race. A couple sets of relatives have adopted children of different races than one or both or the parents. Our societal distinctions are no longer always about race or gender. They are increasingly about class and education and means. Continuing to let race and gender define us is just living in the past. Individuals can do that, and have the right to do that. But having instituaional policies which treat people differently based on gender or race as a sole determining factor is a concept I find inherently wrong.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by AngryMulletMan
So which is it, don't get all Rosa Parks unless you have personally been screwed or don't harp about how bad you might personally have been screwed?

Neither. It's "don't assume your aggregate karma is worse than someone else just because you're a member of some demographic."

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
I don't think you're sexist or misogynist, but I do think you should shut up because you sound stupid. And the "HELLO?" device is a little rude. RT is way sharper than you.

[description of egregious discrimination]

The devil's advocate and economist in me wants to justify with duscussions of leverage, but of course it's not the point. Sure, bastards like that exist. I would never dispute for a second that there aren't a lot of racist and sexist scum on this earth. And I probably glossed over it too much and didn't describe the extent to which I understand that those behaviours exist and still seriously affect people.

But, if there's one field which has moved largely away from those kind of attitudes, it's law. Does that mean that we should stop trying to get rid of those attitudes? No. But it also doesn't mean that we should encourage other race and gender based classification, whether it's in people's minds or official policies.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I I predicted it and here it is. I knew I could count on you. You were the whiny little bitch that started this conversation. "I don't get this. I don't get that. Look at that black guy with the mentor." I told you that you don't NEED a mentor. I told you why. You made up some shit about how all the blacks and women at your firm get treated just as well if not better than you when it comes to socializing with the overwhelming white, male capital partners that your firm is sure to have.

I can't remember the last time I sat around with white guys and talked about being white. Is that really what an intraracial mentor/mentee relationship is primarily based on? Race? People sit around saying "Let me give you some good 'being a black lawyer' tips."? I have this fantasy that the decisions at my firm are based on merit and politics and interpersonal relationships. And I don't see any demographic being excluded from it. Really. Attracting and hiring candidates might be tough, but retention isn't. And my beef, then, is that I don't get all this great mentoring. I don't have anyone ask these questions I want to ask. Sure, I seek people out, and get the answers, but I've got no real desire to stay if a a better position comes along. And I'm offended that I'm not valued in that regard SOLELY because of my race.

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You know what, usually when I get into an argument on this board, I think, "If we were in a bar and I was arguing this with Sebby/bilmore/ltl, we would probably get animated but it wouldn't amount to anything." But if you said this to my face I would beat your motherfuckin' ass.

Well, I'm sorry that it's come to threats of violence, but at least I know to take any invitations to convene face to face with a grain of salt, since it sounds like you'll be plotting jumping me and beating me.

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
And now I'm leaving because you're about on the same level as Not Me as far as adding anything to a conversation goes.

TM

Word is, that broad's a sock.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

[Texas]

ALL my comments, ever, about anything, as a former Texas resident, should be interpretted to include the caveat "Texas is fucked up, and there's nothing us real Americans can do about it."

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
It is not at all inconsistent with the misogynist role. Though, it makes me think you are either (a) a chick who wants us to think you are hot, either because (i) you are not or (ii) that is what you value most about yourself or (b) a guy who wants us to think that you can get a chick that hot.

I love how everything here eventually devolves into "You're ugly in real life." "No, you're ugly and fat." "Ooh, I'm rubber and you're glue!!"

If I could get a chick half as hot as Suzanne Cryer, I would be trumpeting it from the top of my desk, I wouldn't spend an hour responding to posts after I get back from dinner after I spent an hour at work fucking writing all this shit. I'd be in bed with someone half as hot as Suzanne Cryer.

[mmm3587]

That's seven in a row I'm off to bed to dream of harmony and love. Hopefully I won't be murdered in my sleep by an enraged mob of lawtalkers. If you're all good, I'll have a new avatar for you tomorrow.

[Atticus Grinch]

Having now seen it, I will observe that the SG went through three obvious stages in the course of the show:

• David Spade, age 17
• Jon Bon Jovi circa 2001
• That dude from the Goo Goo Dolls (after the hack Fuse stylist got done with him).

He looked like Brad Pitt only in the distant sense that occasionally Brad Pitt dresses and coifs like Jeff Lebowski.

I would rather chew off my own knob with infected teeth than read ANOTHER FUCKING POST ABOUT DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORKPLACE.

That is all.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by leagleaze
He was writing alphabet on my pussy for 20 minutes, .......his dick is 15 inches long............

15 inches???

"writing alphabet" is Canadian slang. I think there might have been some metric system conversion that happened with a conversion factor error.

[Anne Elk]

I did not intend to step into the discussion betweem TM and mmm. But an article I read this morning has inspired me to comment. This story disturbs me and illustrates how our opinions and impressions of minority groups are shaped at a very young age. A 7 year old boy in Louisiana was punished for telling classmates that his mother was gay. Even if they do get an apology, the damage has been done. All the kids in that classroom have learned that there is something wrong with being gay.

Despite our best efforts to eliminate discrimination/racism/sexism from our lives, it does exist and will continue to exist. What we see and experience at a young age will shape our politics and beliefs later in life. I hope we continue to make progress, but feel that in reality we are decades away from a true egalitarian society.

[evenodds]

Yesterday morning, PJ pmed with a rumor too disturbing for me to contemplate . . . that Roberto Heras was leaving the Posties for the new Manolo Saiz-ONCE team (whose name escapes me).

This morning, our local npr station confirmed the news, waking me from a dead sleep. Now, I am exhausted and pissed off.

Just try to bring your weak-ass shit today, ya bunch of race-baiting, sexist pigs.

E/O