Politics As Usual

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
And what headwear?

Used to be kind of towel-like, but they all have panties on their heads now. I think it's some sort of fraternity prank.

[the Spartan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Sidd, AG and I rely pretty exclusively on Catrin Darcy for fashion advice, etc. Until em straightened me out, I would wear overalls into the office on casual Fridays. If you ship him down, we'll have to introduce them.

I'm confused, I've seen the name, but am at a loss on the details......is Catrin Darcy a girl or a guy or a gay? nttawwt. Mario is straight acting, iykwim. D to the L.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I find your suggestions rich because I think the far left has been politicizing the war on terror/war on Iraq ever since they felt it would not be in gawd awful taste to do so.

Whatever. Valerie Plame.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I read to this part then stopped:

Another official, this one from the Pakistani Interior Ministry, which is responsible for internal security, explains, "The Musharraf government has a history of rescuing the Bush administration. They now want Musharraf to bail them out when they are facing hard times in the coming elections."

When did Musharraf rescue Bush?

80% of Saudi TV viewers think Bush planned 9/11, yet you continue to take vague allegations from people over there and treat them like fact.

Nitpickery:
1) The allegations are pretty specific. They have dates and everything.
2) By "people over there", do you include everyone who is not over here? Like, those foreign intel services on the yellowcake story?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I read to this part then stopped:

Another official, this one from the Pakistani Interior Ministry, which is responsible for internal security, explains, "The Musharraf government has a history of rescuing the Bush administration. They now want Musharraf to bail them out when they are facing hard times in the coming elections."

When did Musharraf rescue Bush?

80% of Saudi TV viewers think Bush planned 9/11, yet you continue to take vague allegations from people over there and treat them like fact.

Nice try, but that argument is sourced pretty concretely. They have multiple sources in Pakistani intelligence.

Musharraf dumped on the elements in Pakistan supporting the Taliban and let Bush use his country to invade Afghanistan. You may recall that we invaded Afghanistan a few years ago? Pakistan is the country directly to the south of Afghanistan, through which our troops moved. For many years, the Taliban had been supported by Pakistan's government.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Whatever. Valerie Plame.

Club is Valerie Plame? Ixnay on the outing-ay.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I find your suggestions rich because I think the far left has been politicizing the war on terror/war on Iraq ever since they felt it would not be in gawd awful taste to do so. This started with Dean, and once they realized that there were no ramifications, the flood gates opened.*

Are you fucking kidding me? The admin has been politicizing this war ever since they scheduled the congressional vote. Dean was still haranguing other people's kids at soccer games back then.

if you don't disclose threats, you are withholding for nefarious purposes

Who has ever said this?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Whatever. Valerie Plame.

Please explain.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by The Larry Davis Experience
Are you fucking kidding me? The admin has been politicizing this war ever since they scheduled the congressional vote. Dean was still haranguing other people's kids at soccer games back then.

How?

[the Spartan]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Whatever. Valerie Plame.

Who?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I have no idea whether or not this is true, but assuming it is, what is the problem with putting extra pressure on the Pakis?

Do you read that article and see nothing wrong? Tell the truth. The White House pressures the Pakistanis to produce a high-value target during the Democratic national convention and this is just "putting extra pressure on the Pakis"?

Are you suggesting that the Admin dragged its feet so that, assuming the Pakis are successful, it could time the captures/kills to the election?

Why weren't these things done last year? Why are we "stepping" up pressure now?

I find your suggestions rich because I think the far left has been politicizing the war on terror/war on Iraq ever since they felt it would not be in gawd awful taste to do so. This started with Dean, and once they realized that there were no ramifications, the flood gates opened.

I have no problem with making a political issue out of foreign policy. This is supposed to be a democracy after all, and I think that's what Dean was doing. But using instruments of foreign policy to advance a particular party or candidate's interest? That's not what Dean was doing at all, and it's odious. Moreover, if you think about it just for a moment, you will recall that Bush has been doing this for years. He sat on the proposal to create a Department of Homeland Security for months, and then used it for partisan advantage in the 2002 elections. That, BTW, was pre-Dean.

This is not to say that there are not legitimate critisisms, especially in Iraq. There are, especially in execution. But its a catch 22 on the left - if you don't disclose threats, you are withholding for nefarious purposes. If you do, you are politicizing the war.

That's a Hobson's Choice, not a Catch-22. And there are certainly ways to conduct foreign policy and/or domestic security policy in a bipartisan way, as some of the earlier posters pointed out. Politics used to stop at the water's edge, at least moreso than it does now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Nice try, but that argument is sourced pretty concretely. They have multiple sources in Pakistani intelligence.

Musharraf dumped on the elements in Pakistan supporting the Taliban and let Bush use his country to invade Afghanistan. You may recall that we invaded Afghanistan a few years ago? Pakistan is the country directly to the south of Afghanistan, through which our troops moved. For many years, the Taliban had been supported by Pakistan's government.

How the fuck is that rescuing Bush.
He had no choice, at least no real choice. 10/2001 was not a good time to be supporting the Afghan gov't. He was the head of the only country that had recoognized the home of al Queda. Shoot, we would probably have been better off if we could have invaded Pakistan too.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Do you read that article and see nothing wrong? Tell the truth. The White House pressures the Pakistanis to produce a high-value target during the Democratic national convention and this is just "putting extra pressure on the Pakis"?

Assume they can bring one in to order. Assume Bush is saying (it really is tough to fit inside your brain) get me one in July so I can sidetrack the Dem's convention. assume the Pakis bow to the pressure, go further than they otherwise would and grab one late July, and they wouldn't have if they didn't have the pressure. If the above is true, I'm okay with it bacause we've caught a guy we otherwise wouldn't.

But the fact is that they probably can't just go grab one, so the story is silly, and your believing it true means that you believe the US intelligence service is really naive.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
How the fuck is that rescuing Bush.
He had no choice, at least no real choice. 10/2001 was not a good time to be supporting the Afghan gov't. He was the head of the only country that had recoognized the home of al Queda. Shoot, we would probably have been better off if we could have invaded Pakistan too.

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're playing stupid, or what. Musharraf did an awful lot for Bush, with substantial risks to himself. Pointing out that he was between a rock and a hard place does not change this. There are an awful lot of people in his country -- in his military and intelligence service -- who supported the Taliban and Islamists. They've tried to kill him multiple times since then.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by sgtclub
How?

Scheduling the vote on the Iraq war before the midterm elections, months before we went in. And Ty's point about the DHS.