Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What is a "negative right"?

the right to be left alone.

Contrast with positive rights--i.e., gimme, gimme, gimme.

Or, I have a right to a brownie.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's easy to undermine any political theory if one compares it in pure form to the practical versions of everything else.

Of course, in theory communism works too.

But if you look at libertarianism from a practical perspective, it's just a bunch of folks whining about their taxes, restrictions on their right to put up strip clubs next to day care centers, and the passing of the good old days when coal miners earned $2 a week and children only made $1.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by taxwonk
it's just a bunch of folks whining about their taxes,.

that describes 99.9% of america. the other .1% is Ted Kennedy. Hank has visual confirmation of that percentage, I'm sure.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
That's not accurate. Libertarians recognize that government is needed to enforce individual rights. Individual rights, however, are only negative rights.

Really? I would think almost any right could be defined either in negative or positive terms. Or are you merely arguing semantics again?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
that describes 99.9% of america. the other .1% is Ted Kennedy. Hank has visual confirmation of that percentage, I'm sure.

While I'm not with Ted Kennedy, I am with him on not whining.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Libertarians are anarchists with money.

Close. Libertarians are anarchists with money who believe that government should play the limited role of keeping anyone else from getting any money.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Please don't take club as representing accurately the views of libertarians. That's why I keep kicking him off the ticket.

True, and that's why I had to establish the Island.

[wrong thread]

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Close. Libertarians are anarchists with money who believe that government should play the limited role of keeping anyone else from getting any money.

This is very funny.

ETA: Wouldn't you consider yourself a civil libertarian? An if so, I think you have bought into libertarian principles, but are simply unwilling to extend those principles as far as the Libertarians do.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Really? I would think almost any right could be defined either in negative or positive terms. Or are you merely arguing semantics again?

There's a pretty well established distinction in political philosophy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
the right to be left alone.

Contrast with positive rights--i.e., gimme, gimme, gimme.

Or, I have a right to a brownie.

When EPA tells you to stop emitting dioxin, they are simply trying to protect my right to be left alone.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This is very funny.

ETA: Wouldn't you consider yourself a civil libertarian? An if so, I think you have bought into libertarian principles, but are simply unwilling to extend those principles as far as the Libertarians do.

Well, not really. Libertarianism with a capital L is more about property "rights" than it is about social freedoms. In fact, if I remember my political theory correctly, the Libertarians were somewhat socially conservative. They wanted a good strong police function to protect property owners from the rabble.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
that describes 99.9% of america. the other .1% is Ted Kennedy. Hank has visual confirmation of that percentage, I'm sure.

99.8% and .2%, respectively, if you're counting share of body mass.

There, I said it so Hank wouldn't have to.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Well, not really. Libertarianism with a capital L is more about property "rights" than it is about social freedoms. In fact, if I remember my political theory correctly, the Libertarians were somewhat socially conservative. They wanted a good strong police function to protect property owners from the rabble.

This gets back to the question or what is "Libertarianism." There are so many strands that it is hard to know exactly what each of us are talking about. In the strands I am most familiar with, property rights certainly are important, but not the only concern.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This gets back to the question or what is "Libertarianism." There are so many strands that it is hard to know exactly what each of us are talking about. In the strands I am most familiar with, property rights certainly are important, but not the only concern.

Well, I'm looking mainly to Locke and his theory of man as essentially a brutish lout.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This gets back to the question or what is "Libertarianism." There are so many strands that it is hard to know exactly what each of us are talking about. In the strands I am most familiar with, property rights certainly are important, but not the only concern.

How about "conservative who has personal peccadilloes he doesn't wish to see outlawed?" -- Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon, their archives are down, but it was from April 11thish.