Less to See than on NHL Center Ice®

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ironweed
Don't know if I'll see it or not, but I don't particularly care. This project has been worthwhile just to illustrate the knee-jerk reactions I always hear when insecure jackasses are exposed to modern art.

I think there's always been a sort of feeling that "true art" (yeah, yeah, don't even say it) has to be a product of, among other things, some talent of expression that can't be, or at least isn't, shared by the mob. It's the old "can you paint Binky" thing - everyone can do it, but few can make it grab. Christos' work always strikes me as something inspired by an Ikea catalog, that could be done exactly as he has done it, by anyone. Maybe it's the concept itself that no one else could come up with - maybe that's his "art" - but I look at it, and it never makes me wish I could have his talent. RT's friend, on the other hand, creates something that does inspire that feeling.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Oh relax. Like I'm some boorish hick if I don't "get" the art of wrapping outdoor stuff up.

That is not why you are a boorish hick.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I know way too many artists to believe they actually think anything they say in artist statements.

My Cousin got his MFA from Cranbrook. We went to graduation and there were maybe 2 dozens grads.

The thing that struck me was that the statements were generally things which didn't really say much. Like my cousin's had8 paragraphs and you could reaarange the order of the paragraphs w/o really changing the apparent meaning of the statement.

He admitted that learning to write these was a big part of the training.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The thing that struck me was that the statements were generally things which didn't really say much. Like my cousin's had8 paragraphs and you could reaarange the order of the paragraphs w/o really changing the apparent meaning of the statement.

So, when I was looking for the artist's statement on RT's website, it WASN't the part that said "If you want to purchase any of this art, contact . . . ."?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think there's always been a sort of feeling that "true art" (yeah, yeah, don't even say it) has to be a product of, among other things, some talent of expression that can't be, or at least isn't, shared by the mob. It's the old "can you paint Binky" thing - everyone can do it, but few can make it grab. Christos' work always strikes me as something inspired by an Ikea catalog, that could be done exactly as he has done it, by anyone. Maybe it's the concept itself that no one else could come up with - maybe that's his "art" - but I look at it, and it never makes me wish I could have his talent. RT's friend, on the other hand, creates something that does inspire that feeling.

In the 1970s and '80s, you derided Jim Dine and Chris Burden as frauds who were pulling a scam on the art world. In the 1960s you laughed at the sloppy-sounding off-kilter phrasings of Thelonious Monk and wondered if he could be good if he just took some piano lessons. In the '50s, you vehemently argued that your 4 year old could reproduce Jackson Pollack's work and were angered for a little over four and a half minutes by John Cage. In 1948, you beat Ornette Coleman unconscious in Baton Rouge because his music was untutored and unlistenable shit. Throughout the early twentieth century, you mocked Picasso's cubism as the deranged hallucinations of a failed painter. In 1912, you rioted on the opening night of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. In the late 19th Century, you were scandalized by Monet's abandonment of traditional realism, and assumed it was because he just couldn't paint very well.

You've been busy.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
In the 1970s and '80s, you derided Jim Dine and Chris Burden as frauds who were pulling a scam on the art world. In the 1960s you laughed at the sloppy-sounding off-kilter phrasings of Thelonious Monk and wondered if he could be good if he just took some piano lessons. In the '50s, you vehemently argued that your 4 year old could reproduce Jackson Pollack's work and were angered for a little over four and a half minutes by John Cage. In 1948, you beat Ornette Coleman unconscious in Baton Rouge because his music was untutored and unlistenable shit. Throughout the early twentieth century, you mocked Picasso's cubism as the deranged hallucinations of a failed painter. In 1912, you rioted on the opening night of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. In the late 19th Century, you were scandalized by Monet's abandonment of traditional realism, and assumed it was because he just couldn't paint very well.

You've been busy.

Gang of Four was an art school project initially. I believe you rejected it because it didn't sound like the Clash-

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
In the 1970s and '80s, you derided Jim Dine and Chris Burden as frauds who were pulling a scam on the art world. In the 1960s you laughed at the sloppy-sounding off-kilter phrasings of Thelonious Monk and wondered if he could be good if he just took some piano lessons. In the '50s, you vehemently argued that your 4 year old could reproduce Jackson Pollack's work and were angered for a little over four and a half minutes by John Cage. In 1948, you beat Ornette Coleman unconscious in Baton Rouge because his music was untutored and unlistenable shit. Throughout the early twentieth century, you mocked Picasso's cubism as the deranged hallucinations of a failed painter. In 1912, you rioted on the opening night of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. In the late 19th Century, you were scandalized by Monet's abandonment of traditional realism, and assumed it was because he just couldn't paint very well.

You've been busy.

You don't know the half of it. In between all of that shit, I stuck around st. petersburg when I saw it was a time for a change. I Killed the czar and his ministers while Anastasia screamed in vain. I rode a tank, held a general’s rank when the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank. In short, I am a fucking billing machine.

(I will add, of course, that I will apologize profusely should Christos stand the test of time and be ranked with Jim Dine, Chris Burden, Thelonious Monk, Jackson Pollack, John Cage, Ornette Coleman, Picasso, Stravinsky, or Monet.)

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ironweed
What is it exactly that pisses everyone off about this?

Aw hell, I don't know anyone in some hissy rage over the orange drapes or anything. Just a fun group of people who like to make fun of femmy New Yorkers who get all serious talking about temporary outdoor drapes. To boors and fishfaces like us, these people sound silly. And we like to poke fun. Christo had it fucking coming, so step aside.

This project has been worthwhile...exposed to modern art.

Likey the Modern Art, eh? Pussy!!!!

It's in a park, which makes the "tying up traffic" complaint one of the stupidest I have ever heard. It'll be gone by the weekend if you don't like orange.

The crowds of silly people going to the park and hanging the drapery caused traffic. On the other hand, I do like the color of the drapes. I'm just too grounded, however, to get all weepy about it and think the drapes are "a new part of history" and other lofty nonsense.

Now. Don't EVEN get me started on those cow statues.



DK(Drapeless in)NY

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by bilmore
You don't know the half of it. In between all of that shit, I stuck around st. petersburg when I saw it was a time for a change. I Killed the czar and his ministers while Anastasia screamed in vain. I rode a tank, held a general’s rank when the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank. In short, I am a fucking billing machine.

(I will add, of course, that I will apologize profusely should Christos stand the test of time and be ranked with Jim Dine, Chris Burden, Thelonious Monk, Jackson Pollack, John Cage, Ornette Coleman, Picasso, Stravinsky, or Monet.)

I have no idea whether Cristos will stand the test of time. I was just noting that your criticism of him -- "Christos' work always strikes me as something inspired by [something banal], that could be done exactly as he has done it, by anyone." -- strikes me as the type of statement that people have said about many other artists. Like Jim Dine, when he held an art exhibition of mental images that he "projected" onto sheets adorning gallery walls. Or Chris Burden, when he decided it was art to lock himself in an art school locker for three days, or drag himself across a New York street covered in broken glass wearing only his underwear. Or John Cage, when he "wrote" a musical piece that was nothing more than four minutes and thirty three seconds of silence. This criticism was merely a variation on the criticisms that faced Ornette Coleman, when he decided to abandon traditional chord and time structures. Or Jackson Pollack, when he just spilled his paint onto a canvas and called it a painting. This was not art. There was no vistuosity here. Anyone could do it. Hell, Andy Warhol's whole point was that anyone could do it - which is why he hired others to do it for him. As for the merits of your criticism, that of course is something about which reasonable minds can disagree. I'm just saying that the criticism is not all that novel, although I suppose you never argued that it was.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
I have no idea whether Cristos will stand the test of time. I was just noting that your criticism of him -- "Christos' work always strikes me as something inspired by [something banal], that could be done exactly as he has done it, by anyone." -- strikes me as the type of statement that people have said about many other artists. Like Jim Dine, when he held an art exhibition of mental images that he "projected" onto sheets adorning gallery walls. Or Chris Burden, when he decided it was art to lock himself in an art school locker for three days, or drag himself across a New York street covered in broken glass wearing only his underwear. Or John Cage, when he "wrote" a musical piece that was nothing more than four minutes and thirty three seconds of silence. This criticism was merely a variation on the criticisms that faced Ornette Coleman, when he decided to abandon traditional chord and time structures. Or Jackson Pollack, when he just spilled his paint onto a canvas and called it a painting. This was not art. There was no vistuosity here. Anyone could do it. Hell, Andy Warhol's whole point was that anyone could do it - which is why he hired others to do it for him. As for the merits of your criticism, that of course is something about which reasonable minds can disagree. I'm just saying that the criticism is not all that novel, although I suppose you never argued that it was.

No, I understand that. All of these people (well, I don't know about Burden) brought some quality to what they were doing that, while their work didn't always satisfy the reward-buttons that people had been trained to look to in order to claim satisfaction, did provide some new kind of satisfaction once you could wait for it. I know that had to hear Monk a number of times before I could get an idea of what he was trying to say. (Burden still baffles me - all I can see is him saying "shoot me!") Coleman was similarly strange the first few times. (Thanks gawd for Jerry G.) In short, most of these people left one with a strong impression once you could put down the template you had been trying to fill out, and let them freehand. I got a sense of what they were trying to say, eventually (which said delay is more a reflection on me, I understand, then them.) With Christos, I not only don't get that sense, I wonder why he bothers to speak.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by bilmore

Your best post ever. Now THAT is modern art. I totally get it. Genius.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by bilmore

Or the guy who takes photos of other people's photos and reproduces them as art without adding anything - not even any commentary. Thanks for reminding me.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Or the guy who takes photos of other people's photos and reproduces them as art without adding anything - not even any commentary. Thanks for reminding me.

I may have whiffed, but as least I scroll before I post.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton

Now. Don't EVEN get me started on those cow statues.



DK(Drapeless in)NY

Are the cows in NYC now? You stole that shite from the Second City. It sucked here too.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Are the cows in NYC now? You stole that shite from the Second City. It sucked here too.

Heh. The cows are now terrorizing South Africans. Come on, Coltrane. Get with the fucking program .