Fashion Board 11-2-03 - 12-09-03

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
It works better when people combine.

TM

Amen. I was looking at Playboy's 50th anniversary special and some Polo catalogue with that rEdiculous brunette swimsuit model in it last note and was thinking "God, what would you get if you cross bred these 6'0 Russian playmates with these super-stacked latin babes?" I think that new Polo model respresents exactly what you'd get. She's utterly perfect.

On the other side, when folks interbreed you get people who look like Prince Charles (middle aged Alfred E. Neuman).

[bilmore]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
FWIW, here's my story about husbands, wives, babies and money, . . .

Cool. You just described our situation upon arrival of Baggeutte I to a "t", including my wife's thought process at the time. Never would have thought she'd want the SHM bit, given where her career was and where it promised to go soon, but here we are . . .

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by dtb

Don't tell me you haven't heard men saying it's like a vacation coming back to work after having been home for the weekend (or whatever period of time) with the kids! (I'm not saying you say that, maybe you do, maybe you don't -- but it's not an uncommon thing to hear.)

Its a pain in the ass to be home because womens' standards of cleanliness and what needs to be done around the house is 8000X higher than men's. When I get home I want to sit on my ass. I do the dishes and vacuum and clean the cat litter, but not until AFTER I read the paper, go to the gym and relax a bit. Why the fuck do the chores have to be done on the woman's schedule all the time? Does it make a difference if I do it at 8:00 or 9:00? And why does every day have to be a day when there's some chore to be done around the house? Why not wait the whole week and do them all on one weekend day? Women need shit so much more organized all the time, and its all fucking busywork. Slow down.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by mmm3587
Just like it offends me when the culture of a law firm dictates it's appropriate for a woman to sculpt her career to work around her kids and her family, but it's in appropriate for a man to want to be around his children.

The culture of a law firm does not "dictate" that it's appropriate for a woman to sculpt her career around her family -- rather it is the women who made and are making difficult choices to do that who are creating cultures, in some law firms more successfully than in others, where it's finally acceptable for women to do so. It wasn't handed to the women, women who to you seem to have it "easy" now are lucky enough to benefit from the difficult battles fought by other women since the 70s, 80s, 90s. And the gains from those battles haven't made their way to all law firms, not by far.

If men want it to be acceptable for them to do the same things -- to strike the same family/career balance -- then they need to suck it up and take the paternity leave and fight for partnership and be willing to lose that particular fight -- just like women did, and have done, in the past. It sucks for men who want to do it, it really, really (really!) does, but they have to be willing to fight for it. If they wimp out and don't take leave because some bitchy partner makes a sexist comment about how the guy's a pussy or whatever,* and they think they're jeopardizing their partnership chances, then like dtb says, the culture will never change for men. The double standard you complain about is a bad thing for women, too, because it devalues family choices and it creates the kind of "offense" that you are feeling about so-called "preferential treatment." It's also no good for the wives and the kids of the lawyers in such firms.

This is not intended to trivialize the tough position men can be in regarding paternity leave, but to say you either have to be willing to put up the fight or suck it up.

*And as for the bitchy partner denigrating a guy for taking paternity leave, I believe it, as a woman where I work made such a comment about a man who did so after his twins were born (prematurely, I might add), and quickly backtracked after it was pointed out that she had taken three maternity leaves and worked part time for awhile and was still promoted.

[leagleaze]

If I may, I think TM's point is simply this. As a minority in this society we are, as are you, inundated with the majority culture. You need not discuss the aspects that make you the majority, it is all over the place. We however have to seek out reflections of ourselves. And because we have no choice but to live in the majority society, we understand it. And if we want to thrive we need to not only understand it, but assume it to some degree, regardless of whether we want to.

So no, you don't understand us as well as we understand you. You in a plural sense not in a personal sense. You don't need to. And even if you try to come into our world you can always walk on out of it. We however cannot. And as far as I am concerned, and as far as most of my friends of varying minorities are concerned, not a day goes by that we aren't reminded we are in whatever minority it is we are in.

And that is downright exhausting.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Its a pain in the ass to be home because womens' standards of cleanliness and what needs to be done around the house is 8000X higher than men's. When I get home I want to sit on my ass. I do the dishes and vacuum and clean the cat litter, but not until AFTER I read the paper, go to the gym and relax a bit. Why the fuck do the chores have to be done on the woman's schedule all the time? Does it make a difference if I do it at 8:00 or 9:00? And why does every day have to be a day when there's some chore to be done around the house? Why not wait the whole week and do them all on one weekend day? Women need shit so much more organized all the time, and its all fucking busywork. Slow down.

Might I suggest a housekeeper? They will come to your house a specified number of days a week and do said busywork for you.

Thus leaving you free to read the paper or go to the gym and freeing your wife of the annoyance of having it undone.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by leagleaze
And that is downright exhausting.

It's not easy being green.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Every situation is different. That's all I'm trying to say.

Did you ever notice that when people say "That's all I'm trying to say" it is never in fact all that they are trying to say?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
.... It's not sexist, it's not even a gender thing. It's just how we feel.

Every situation is different. That's all I'm trying to say.

Something else you're saying in here is also important, which is that there comes a time when it's no longer all about you, or even you and your spouse.

I love it when the FB ventures onto Mom & Dad board turf.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Its a pain in the ass to be home because womens' standards of cleanliness and what needs to be done around the house is 8000X higher than men's. When I get home I want to sit on my ass. I do the dishes and vacuum and clean the cat litter, but not until AFTER I read the paper, go to the gym and relax a bit. Why the fuck do the chores have to be done on the woman's schedule all the time? Does it make a difference if I do it at 8:00 or 9:00? And why does every day have to be a day when there's some chore to be done around the house? Why not wait the whole week and do them all on one weekend day? Women need shit so much more organized all the time, and its all fucking busywork. Slow down.

Hire a cleaning lady. My husband and I are both slobs (you don't want to see my office). The mess will build up all week and then one day it will be magically gone. You will become a happy person (although I don't think the FB could handle a happy SD).

(read, then post)

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by mmm3587
I've got a lot to do today, so a quick short post:

Did you ever notice that when people say that they have a "quick short post" it is almost never actually a quick short post?

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by bilmore
Cool. You just described our situation upon arrival of Baggeutte I to a "t", including my wife's thought process at the time. Never would have thought she'd want the SHM bit, given where her career was and where it promised to go soon, but here we are . . .

Same here. Meant to post on it yesterday, but never got around to it. There are feelings and thought processes that come with the kid that are, for many of us, hard to appreciate until you actually get there. Most of the SHMs I know have done it after a very deliberate evaluation of what's best for kid and family. Very few are the lazy gold-diggers so despised by Rauuul.

BTW, Sebby, kids don't mean the end of the party. A different sort of party, sure, with less bar-hopping time, but still ample opportunity for a hedonistic cat to have a good time, both with and sans kid. Though I would recommend rethinking your aversion to wine. It's the most family-friendly adult beverage, and it makes food taste better.

Ollie

[Sidd Finch]

Last night I looked out my living room window and saw a naked woman in the building behind mine. Okay, she wasn't totally naked -- I just saw her butt.

But when I glanced again, she was totally naked. And really quite nice-looking (though I couldn't see her face). I was trying to be very subtle, given that I didn't want to look like an utter creep, but still..... very enjoyable. And at some level, if you are standing buck-naked in front of a window with no shade pulled, in a densely populated neighborhood where you can see that other people are home, you really can't get all that offended if people look.

But anyway. The dilemma -- I've been in this home over 5 years. Never seen this before (not her, anyway. Saw some fat guy's butt a bunch of times, but that's a different story). And now I'm in escrow on a new home on the other side of town.

So do I break the deal in order to pursue a "Dear Penthouse" window-peeping affair?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Last night I looked out my living room window and saw a naked woman in the building behind mine. Okay, she wasn't totally naked -- I just saw her butt.

But when I glanced again, she was totally naked. And really quite nice-looking (though I couldn't see her face). I was trying to be very subtle, given that I didn't want to look like an utter creep, but still..... very enjoyable. And at some level, if you are standing buck-naked in front of a window with no shade pulled, in a densely populated neighborhood where you can see that other people are home, you really can't get all that offended if people look.

But anyway. The dilemma -- I've been in this home over 5 years. Never seen this before (not her, anyway. Saw some fat guy's butt a bunch of times, but that's a different story). And now I'm in escrow on a new home on the other side of town.

So do I break the deal in order to pursue a "Dear Penthouse" window-peeping affair?

You are such a fucking white boy. Go get some real problems like these other people here.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
This is not intended to diminish the thought-provokingness of your post, Flower.

Did you ever notice that when people say "This is not intended to diminish the thought-provokingness of your post, Flower," it almost always is intended to diminish the thought-provokingness of my post?